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Old Feb 02, 2009, 11:30 PM
Foamy Season is here! MX2#1
pitviper51's Avatar
Elizabethtown, Kentucky
Joined Nov 2005
3,406 Posts
tho i figured the site out and like the price, i dont think ill be able to buy from a sorce out side the us,, i had to send a check to kmp cuz my stuff got blocked.. its bogus junk.. but any one know of another sorce besides hobbyclub in the usa? any word on if this lil bird it 2.4 safe? i see the binary III is labled that,. but ...
mike
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Old Feb 02, 2009, 11:47 PM
a.k.a. Matt Nelson
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North Tustin, CA
Joined Oct 2008
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Binary-900 Gear Installation

OK - it's been a while since I updated this build log, so let's finish it off with my backlog of photos!

Here's what I settled on for a first go under the hood:
  • 2 Cirrus CS101 servos (4g each, from local hobby store)
  • 1 Futaba R6004FF 2.4 GHz FASST Rx (limited range park-flyer, 3.3g w/out case)
  • 1 150 mAh NiMh battery

First order of business was the servos. I mounted them on a balsa plank to get them off the fuse floor. The fuse has a seam down the middle, so the plank got some sanding to get a good fit.

Now the tricky part - this is a pull-pull & pull-spring setup, so we want the lines to pass as freely as possible from the servo horns, through the bulkhead, through the fuse and to the rudder/elevator horns. How does one line up all those holes? I did the following: With the servo sled placed inside the fuse, mount the plane (gently) in a vise with a ball head. Then adjust the angle of the whole thing until the hole in the servo arm and the hole in the corresponding control horn are the same height off the bench. I used a ruler+triangle+allenwrench+tape to make a "probe" for measuring the height of stuff inside the fuse (see the photo). Once it's level, all the holes for that line should also be at that same level. Just mark the hole heights on the fuse and bulkhead. The side-to-side location can be easily found by eyeballing it with the aid of a taut string. Repeat this process two more times for the other control lines.

I then drilled some small holes, then opened them up at an angle. It looks pretty bad, so I might try something different next time. On my setup, the rudder servo arms are on the same side of the fuse, so one of the lines will have to pass under the boom. Oh well.

Because there is basically NO access to the servos once they are installed, the control lines must be attached to the servos prior to gluing down the servo sled. Thread the lines through the holes, and glue the servo sled into place. I used Goop to glue the servos to the sled, and the sled to the fuse.

After that cured overnight, you can attache the control lines to the rudder/elevator. Plug the servos into the Rx and battery, then turn on the Tx to ensure that the servos are centered. Carefully tie the lines to the horns, while maintaining "enough" tension and keeping the control surfaces at a neutral position. I used a drop of CA to ensure that everything stayed put.
Disaster #1: I guess I pulled too hard on one of the rudder lines while tying the knot. After the CA set, I found that the the rudder was NOT CENTERED. Oh gawd. How did I screw that up? There's only one fix - cut all the lines, rip the servo sled out of the fuse, pick the CA-covered lines out of all the horns, and start over again. Since I ruined all the line supplied in the kit, this time I used some 30# Spiderwire Ultracast fishing line. It's braided spectra, so it shouldn't stretch. I must say it was much easier to work with than the wire supplied with the kit.
With that behind me, I stuffed the battery into the nose and stuffed the Rx into the fuse behind it. It all fit! I tested it for CG, and found I needed to add a bit of weight. There is some room in the fuse in front of the battery, so I figured I'd just tape some lead to the front of the battery pack. This also has the advantage that if I want to swap in other batteries, they can be individually ballasted to maintain proper CG.
Disaster #2: While mucking with attaching lead to the front of the battery pack, the receiver needed to come out. When I grabbed it for final dry fit, I noticed that the antenna was missing. It broke off! I almost cried. It is a tiny hair of a wire, 30mm long. Why did Futaba make it so fragile!? Now I was forced to do micro-surgery to solder another antenna wire onto that minuscule circuit board. It tested the steadiness of my hands, but with the help of a good soldering station and a magnifying glass, I got a new wire soldered onto the appropriate pad. And, unbelievably, the Rx worked fine when I was done!
With the Rx wrapped in plastic wrap, I re-stuffed the battery and Rx into the fuse, packed some foam rubber around them, and taped down the hatch.

Done! AUW 5.1 oz. Ready to feel it's first air!

-matt
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Last edited by MattN; Feb 02, 2009 at 11:53 PM. Reason: Add photos
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Old Feb 02, 2009, 11:57 PM
a.k.a. Matt Nelson
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North Tustin, CA
Joined Oct 2008
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My B900 Maiden Flight

I went to a small local park for the first flights of my Binary-900. Some gentle first tosses indicated I needed some down trim - easy enough. A few more javelin tosses gave me the confidence in it's trim to attempt some gentle SAL tosses. As I mentioned before, this is my first DLG, so the SAL is foreign to me. I tried my best to follow all the rules: keep arm straight, let it trail your rotation a bit, and let go earlier than you would think. And guess what, It worked! The silly little plane actually jumped up to 20-30 ft with a "zero-effort" toss.

I got more ambitious, and started doing real DLG tosses. Some weren't too bad and the B900 launched straight and high (maybe 50-60 ft). Other tosses were terrible - left roll, too high (i.e., behind me). I was out there for about 1.5 hr before "fear of dead battery" made me quit. My battery checker showed the state below the "green zone" but not yet in the "red zone". So I guess I called it quits at the right time.

All the advice in this forum regarding launching is dead-on. Trying to "muscle" it higher doesn't work. Harder throws generally were of poor quality, and got the glider no higher than the "just practice the form" launches. I figure it's like a golf swing. As your form gets better and more natural, the speed and distance will come on their own. As it was, I maxed out at something like around 50-60 ft. I'm happy with that for my first day.

The Binary-900 flew pretty well. There was a slight breeze coming over a parking lot, so there were lots of little patches of lift, and I managed to squeeze out several flights of about 2 min or so. There was also a lot of turbulence, which made it tough to judge CG and trim - but I think they are about right. The glider seems to have a good speed range - pull up a little and you can get it to slow down pretty good for landing/catching, and just a hair of down will really get the thing cruising across the field! I think this glider will allow me to grow my skills into its capability.

Sure, I had a few javelin-style landings (note to self: don't stall 6ft above the ground...). But I also had my share of nice catches, too.

As the session progressed, I noticed that the pull-pull and pull-spring lines were getting somewhat loose. I'm not sure what's going on - the knots still seem OK. I just keep adjusting the sub-trim for the elevator, and put up with an increasingly sloppy rudder. It still flew ok, just a lot less precise.

I was also playing around with launch presets - but all the sloppiness in the control lines made that a silly pursuit.

Next step is to figure out what the heck is going on with the lines. Assuming the knots are still good, I need to figure a good way to restore tension into the lines. Preferably without ripping the whole thing apart again!

All in all, I'm very happy with the Binary-900. My objective was to build a model that wasn't too intimidating that would let me learn the DLG thing. This little guy will do that just fine!

When I get the control issues ironed out, I'll move the B900 off the workbench to make room for building its big brother - the Binary-III...

-matt
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Old Feb 03, 2009, 12:04 AM
a.k.a. Matt Nelson
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North Tustin, CA
Joined Oct 2008
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I inadvertently started new threads rather than new replies describing the radio install and maiden flights. Dang, I must be tired tonight. Anyway, those threads are closed now.

pitviper51 followed up with:
your posting away tonight! congrats on good flights. is the control line braided or spun ?? if so my guess is your getting the break-in slack out of the lines, we do the same thing with bike cables at work by trying to pre stretch them so things shift right. id say once you get the slack out itll likly be ok.. but then again this tiny stuff is a bit differnt then bike cable haha but its the same concept. every time i see a pic of this plane makes me want one it. looks soo clean. any plans for video?
mike
The control line is braided. I'm hoping that they just stretched out a bit - I think I've cooked up a way to introduce the needed tension w/out disassembling the whole works. Fingers crossed.

It is a clean little plane. I'm glad i bought 2 - one to learn on, and another for when the first one is beaten to a pulp and my skills have improved...

Unfortunately, I don't have a video camera - so there's no plans for a vid. sorry.

-matt
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Old Feb 03, 2009, 12:14 AM
a.k.a. Matt Nelson
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Mike also commented in my other mistake of a new thread:
wow theres not much room in there haha, i still get funny looks when i show folks the servos on my alula d47's always amazed at how tiny the servo is.. one thing im surprised at on this is how the controllines are run outside the boom.. to me thats asking for a snaged line in rough grass.. maybe its fine tho, looking forward to flight report.
mike
Yep, it's a bit cramped in there - but I guess I got used to it. I stared at it enough trying to sort out how to fit everything! I'm not sure I really trust the CS101's. I didn't have any D47's, and I couldn't get HS55's to fit. I've read mixed reports about the CS101's, but it seems many find them generally stable. I'm not gonna sweat it.

The control line routing isn't even mentioned in the instructions. At first I thought of running them down the inside of the boom for the very reasons you mentioned. I sent a question to Harry Ha at Peak Hobby, and quickly got the following reply:
We suggested pull-pull and pull-spring system all move out of the boom to prevent drill the hole on the boom. That will lead to boom break during the force launch.
Broken booms sound bad, so I just did as I was told. Truth be told, I don't even notice the lines any more. I don't think it will be an issue.

-matt
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Old Feb 03, 2009, 12:16 AM
Foamy Season is here! MX2#1
pitviper51's Avatar
Elizabethtown, Kentucky
Joined Nov 2005
3,406 Posts
hope the fix works on the tension.. the true dlg stuff is new to me, i only have an alula that has been tossed far harder then indended with fun results.. your spot on about the tossing form.. i look like happy gilmore tossing a glider.. no prob onthevideo, just keep getting pics of this pretty plane haha. i wonder if a AR6100 spekrum would fit in there and if the amount of carbon would mess with it... if i get another glider to fling i dont want to smack any more antennes.. or ill be forced to get a rubber duck haha

i would fly it for a lil while longer before adjusting the lines chances are its not fully stretched yet.. but hard to tell on stuff that small. just out curiosity how far is it from servo to control surface? i wonder if the carbon push rod set up on my alula would work on this plane.. couldnt find pics..
mike
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Old Feb 03, 2009, 12:21 AM
a.k.a. Matt Nelson
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North Tustin, CA
Joined Oct 2008
1,802 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by pitviper51
tho i figured the site out and like the price, i dont think ill be able to buy from a sorce out side the us,, i had to send a check to kmp cuz my stuff got blocked.. its bogus junk.. but any one know of another sorce besides hobbyclub in the usa? any word on if this lil bird it 2.4 safe? i see the binary III is labled that,. but ...
mike
It is 2.4 safe. The fuse is fiberglass with some strategic CF reinforcement. The hatch cover is black, but is way too flexible to be CF - so I assume it is FG too. Also, my 2.4 gear seems to work fine in it.

I'm not sure I follow your reasons for not purchasing outside the US... The way Peak Hobby handles it is:
  1. You submit an order on the web page
  2. Peak Hobby sends you an email with information about shipping
  3. You email Peak Hobby with your choice
  4. Peak Hobby emails you a total price
  5. You send payment via PayPal
  6. Peak Hobby ships your order

The whole process took about half an hour for my order. It was really easy, and left me shaking my head muttering "boy this is a small world."

-matt
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Old Feb 03, 2009, 12:26 AM
a.k.a. Matt Nelson
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North Tustin, CA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pitviper51
[...] i would fly it for a lil while longer before adjusting the lines chances are its not fully stretched yet.. but hard to tell on stuff that small. just out curiosity how far is it from servo to control surface? i wonder if the carbon push rod set up on my alula would work on this plane.. couldnt find pics..
mike
Boy, I really don't want to fly it any more in its current state. It's really sloppy. I'll just keep tinkering. There's something like 18" of line on each control.

I'll bet a CF rod or maybe a thin music wire pushrod would work fine. Might make the tail a bit heavier requiring more nose weight.

-matt
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Old Feb 03, 2009, 12:29 AM
Foamy Season is here! MX2#1
pitviper51's Avatar
Elizabethtown, Kentucky
Joined Nov 2005
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i may yet give them a try if i get one,, 130 beats 199 haha.. atleast with it being 199 after shipping is better haha.. good to hear its working on 2.4, i know spektrum has a tiny rx but i know my current ar6100 has been taken to the limit in my 3d electric so it has to be good on a dlg haha more so being a small dlg haha doesnt take long to spec it out ,, i guess the only thing i wish it had was ailirons haha. but thats not bad that airfoil looks sooooo thin no servo would fit in it haha. well time to sleep on the idea. thanks for the info.
mike
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Old Feb 03, 2009, 10:41 AM
"I want a future." My 3y/o son
USA, CA, Merced
Joined Sep 2008
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B900 Electronics

I just recently maidened my binary 900 as well. Just wanted to show a
different electronic set up and control lines. I kept all the control lines in the boom. I had to replace my throwing peg it broke in half while launching, no wing damage at all. Just replaced it with a solid piece of carbon rod instead of hollow. Easily managed +3minutes flights. Gotta love sunny california. AUW is 142g
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Old Feb 03, 2009, 11:09 AM
a.k.a. Matt Nelson
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North Tustin, CA
Joined Oct 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrWokn
I just recently maidened my binary 900 as well. Just wanted to show a
different electronic set up and control lines. I kept all the control lines in the boom. I had to replace my throwing peg it broke in half while launching, no wing damage at all. Just replaced it with a solid piece of carbon rod instead of hollow. Easily managed +3minutes flights. Gotta love sunny california. AUW is 142g
I like your pod layout - you can actually get to the servo horns. my only concern would be that the control lines have a little more friction on them, and the battery wire interfering with the rudder servo.

I must say, for all the ugliness of my rigging, the lines run essentially frictionless from servo to tail.

Not that it matters - as long as we get 'em in the air!
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Old Feb 03, 2009, 07:23 PM
Foamy Season is here! MX2#1
pitviper51's Avatar
Elizabethtown, Kentucky
Joined Nov 2005
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good to know interanl routing is doable. im very close to getting one at this point haha. but im stuck between the 900 and moving up to the binary III i wonder if a tiny 2 cell lipo would be ok for power, i used then on a indoor micro rc its smaller then a bubble gum square. and 600mah.. i guess voltage would be the trick.. its a toss up at this point..
mike
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Old Feb 03, 2009, 11:31 PM
a.k.a. Matt Nelson
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North Tustin, CA
Joined Oct 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pitviper51
good to know interanl routing is doable. im very close to getting one at this point haha. but im stuck between the 900 and moving up to the binary III i wonder if a tiny 2 cell lipo would be ok for power, i used then on a indoor micro rc its smaller then a bubble gum square. and 600mah.. i guess voltage would be the trick.. its a toss up at this point..
mike
They both have their place, and both will fit in one box. Get both and maximize your shipping dollars!
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Old Feb 03, 2009, 11:34 PM
Foamy Season is here! MX2#1
pitviper51's Avatar
Elizabethtown, Kentucky
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i cant justify getting both.. even with shipping itll be cheaper then the other sorce.. and for the price of both rtf i could get my 4 m TD ship haha.. trying to save money. any chance you have a ar6100 rx do you or some one with this plane... i want to make sure it fits.. since its the only spektrum rx with side plugs
mike
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Old Feb 03, 2009, 11:52 PM
Foamy Season is here! MX2#1
pitviper51's Avatar
Elizabethtown, Kentucky
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well.. i should be finding out myself soon hehe.. i couldnt resist it anymore..
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