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Old Feb 24, 2009, 05:26 PM
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Actually, you should buy the HC plane, then sell the servos and ESC in the classifieds, then you could match or beat his price.

I may be country but even I caught that one.
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Old Feb 24, 2009, 05:46 PM
Argue for your limitations
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Lincoln, CA
Joined Oct 2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by inline300
Actually, you should buy the HC plane, then sell the servos and ESC in the classifieds, then you could match or beat his price.

I may be country but even I caught that one.
Good one... ROFLMAO
AJ
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Old Feb 24, 2009, 05:47 PM
Hooper, full throttle!
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USA, NY, East Islip
Joined Feb 2004
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ajbaker
P.S. I can see though that Tommy has a lot of time invested with Phillip and loyalty is certainly worth the $5.
Ouch! Not sure how to interpit that one but hey, I'm in a good mood today.

I look at it like this. Servos yup got them. ESC, sure got that 2. So all I need is the airframe.

I would rather start with one fresh. By that I mean I don't want to tear the AXN gear out, and perhaps do damage to the model. Also I would rather not resell the gear. Why? Check some of the threads on the reliability of the factory installed electronics in some of these models. That is not something I would want to pass off on some other unexpecting hobbyist.

Lastly I have purchased models from Philip before. These were models that were not available in the USA from any vendor but him. That said one model was damaged in shipping. Philip more then made up for the damaged model quickly and with no questions asked.

I dare you to expect the same from Hobby City. Sure HC might replace the model if it is damaged in shipping. That is AFTER you ship it back to them, on YOUR dime. Thats not a risk I'm willing to take.

Tommy D
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Old Feb 24, 2009, 06:06 PM
Argue for your limitations
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Lincoln, CA
Joined Oct 2006
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Clarification

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tommy D
Ouch! Not sure how to interpit that one but hey, I'm in a good mood today.
I would rather start with one fresh. By that I mean I don't want to tear the AXN gear out, and perhaps do damage to the model. Also I would rather not resell the gear. Why? Check some of the threads on the reliability of the factory installed electronics in some of these models. That is not something I would want to pass off on some other unexpecting hobbyist.

Lastly I have purchased models from Philip before. These were models that were not available in the USA from any vendor but him. That said one model was damaged in shipping. Philip more then made up for the damaged model quickly and with no questions asked.

I dare you to expect the same from Hobby City. Sure HC might replace the model if it is damaged in shipping. That is AFTER you ship it back to them, on YOUR dime. Thats not a risk I'm willing to take.

Tommy D
I need to clarify. If I were you, I would insist on ordering a plane from Phillip because of all the time he spent with me. I personally feel that I would owe him the $6 for all his help. Hope that clears that up. It is a compliment to your anticipated loyalty.
Onto other stuff - I would not want to rip out servos from a new plane either. However, in this case, HC uses HXT900 servos which I use extensively and I have never had a problem with them (of course, my crashes caused me to replace gears in them). I would sell/give them to another hobbyist with a clear conscience. Still, though, I completely agree with you that you have the flexibility to use other servos in a new plane. A big plus is that you already have them (and an ESC) in stock. So, good luck with your plane and happy flying.
AJ
P.S. The few emails that I have sent him were answered almost immediately. So, I am confident that your recommendation of his business is a good one.
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Old Feb 24, 2009, 08:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ajbaker
Hobby City:
AXN Floater-Jet w/esc and four servos: $67.79
Shipping to the US: $41.74
Total - $109.53

Philip Workshop RC:
AXN Clouds Fly - no servos: $59.00
Shipping to the US: $26.00 w/repacking. (His site defaults to repack).
Servos from HC 4-Hxt900 @3.65 = 14.60 (apples to apples)
Hex Pro 18A ESC (cheapo) - 15.60
Total - 115.20
+ shipping for the servos and ESC from Hobby City. But instead of that ESC, the Supersimple 30A with 3A BEC is only $9.

I guess another good thing about getting it from Philip instead is you could spend the money on a better ESC (like the Turnigy Plush) than what the HC one would come with, if you wanted more/smoother throttle steps (and probably more reliable).
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Old Feb 24, 2009, 11:39 PM
Argue for your limitations
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Lincoln, CA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrianL
+ shipping for the servos and ESC from Hobby City. But instead of that ESC, the Supersimple 30A with 3A BEC is only $9.

I guess another good thing about getting it from Philip instead is you could spend the money on a better ESC (like the Turnigy Plush) than what the HC one would come with, if you wanted more/smoother throttle steps (and probably more reliable).
Yes. I have 2 of those. But, they are not programable like the one that comes with the AXN. I like to compare apples to apples.
AJ
P.S. almost all my ESC's are Turnigy - Plush, Sentry, Basic. My favorite is the Plush (best throttle range).
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Old Feb 24, 2009, 11:46 PM
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AFAIK, you can set the brake and battery. It's a Suppo ESC. Or, for $1 more, there's the "card programmable" version.
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Old Feb 25, 2009, 12:17 AM
Argue for your limitations
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrianL
AFAIK, you can set the brake and battery. It's a Suppo ESC. Or, for $1 more, there's the "card programmable" version.
You must mean the 20A (actually an HW ESC). I did not see an 18A programmable. Is it on HK?
AJ
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Old Feb 25, 2009, 12:59 AM
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See above. I said 30A.
Why not use it instead of trying to find an 18A? It's $9/$10; programmable; it'd give a little headroom if you decide to upgrade motors later on as well; and if you use 4 servos, it's 3A BEC is probably a better choice.
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Old Feb 25, 2009, 02:34 AM
Argue for your limitations
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Lincoln, CA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrianL
See above. I said 30A.
Why not use it instead of trying to find an 18A? It's $9/$10; programmable; it'd give a little headroom if you decide to upgrade motors later on as well; and if you use 4 servos, it's 3A BEC is probably a better choice.
Yup. Got it. I agree. If my math is right, it is about even in cost to go with a plane from Phillip (since you have all the other parts). I think we finally worked it out. The only difference I can see between the two is the shipping cost of the pieces/parts if a person did not have them. I ordered the one for me from HC because is saves me some building time.
Now, about the stock market......
AJ
P.S. Good point on the 30A programmable SS. I am going to order a couple of them the next time I order parts.
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Old Feb 25, 2009, 03:15 AM
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Hong Kong
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I read the reply in this thread, I know people worry the repack would cause damaged during transit. Even It is not repack, the damage also have chance to happen. I show how my repack to explain I have confidence it is not easy damaged.
Photo 001, it the original packing, the fuselage and wing are attatched on a paper board. Photo 002 show I remove the paper board, wrap one more layer of bubble sheet for the fuselage and the wing, use tap to fix it to the box "wall" it is also protetive. I cut the box shorter, show on pic 003, this I can reduce some weight. The colorful box are not allow put to shipping, for other products I no need reduct weigh, I would wrap a packing paper, it is 105g, For this one I need to reduce weight, I not use the wrapping paper to save some weight. I just turn the box inside out, use heat glue and tap to fix the box.

For ESC and servo issue, My stock are not included. it is not for save weight money, I see ?? selling PNP, my stock is for someone who no need the stock ESC and servo, that this can provid one more difference choice.

Some people said my product is expensive than ??, that right, because I am not a big shop, my order is not bigger as ??, the wholeseals price is difference, you can think you order 500 from factory and 20 from factory, would the cost are same? I can tell you not the same. 500 is much cheap, but I can't order 500, it is so huge for me. and one more thing, ?? always selling their product under market price as their method to draw customers, I can't compare with them, something side effect I can't stated in this open area to saying other shop, this is their way, no comment. I don't want offended the factory and destroy the market. many factory are restrict the selling price not too low to protect the market. If you are a agency or exclusive seller in your countries, you ordered many. However one shop selling very very low price, how can you earning a reasonable profit, would you like to order again from the factory which not have restrict selling price?
On the other hand, if you are factory, shop A B C D E order from you, and shop E order form you but very very low selling price, what the feeling of A B C D, did them would restock form your factory, this it the market rules.

One more thing, as an online shop, only one way to hand over the product to buyer, it is postman and many handler, it have chance the product would damage during transit, How can we do?? one claim case, would be lost a lot,if the price is too low, more difficulty to provide good warrenty,
even a policy in my site stated that need to return the maulfunction and damaged item, but I never use this weapon, this is only for extreme case, it is lucky I didn't encounter.

I can only say the original packing plus servo and ESC, it would never reach 2.5kg, original is 2.247kg without ESC and servos, what the weight of the servos and ESC?? 2.001kg to 2.5kg is the same range shipping cost.
Therefore I put effort to repack it under 2.0kg, pic 004, it is more trouble to me to repack, but I still like to do to save shipping cost and obtaining more
competition with a big shop, PW-RC is just a small shop, I hope you understand.

Why I still giving a choice for customer not to repack, because the shipping cost is around 4-6 dollars difference, if some one want to receive a original packing for birthday gift to husband, son and friend, the original packing is much appropriate, For your self use, repacking is not the issue, therefor I set repack as default for most buyer for their own use.

A question you may ask, why I didn't set the default weight is 2kg for repack, and add the shipping cost for original packing, it is impossible, because I don't know the buyer come form which countries, the shipping cost is difference, I can do is receive order first to know how much I should refund to the buyer from difference countries.
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Old Feb 25, 2009, 06:23 AM
Wakka Wakka
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Joined Jun 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CWNG06301
many factory are restrict the selling price not too low to protect the market.
In the UK that would be illegal. Market protection of that sort is not allowed here. Over here if you buy something, you own it and you can do whatever you wish to do with it. Including selling it at whatever price you see fit.

Other than that, you make fair comments Phillip. The difficulty for me is that a Multiplex Easystar is cheaper to buy. I don't see that the AXN Cloudsfly has any major advantages over the Easystar, it is meant to be a copy of the Easystar design style and purpose anyway.

It was once true that buying product from Hong Kong, was always cheaper. Unfortunately this is no longer true. Manufacturers in China have become greedy. At the end of the day a foam plane is what?? Nothing but a piece of molded packing foam. In the case of AXN nothing but a piece of molded packing foam that is a copy of somebody elses product. AXN even have the nerve to describe it a "New Elapor Material"

The Material AXN use, is a Polyethelene foam. It is not "Elapor" which is the trade name owned by Multiplex. Elapor foam is blended Polypropelene and Polystyrene foam. Now I personally consider the foam used by AXN to actually be superior to Elapor. It is in fact a much better material. Surface finish is better and crash resistance is better. BUT as a raw material it is also very significantly cheaper than Elapor to manufacture. AXN also has very significantly cheaper labour costs. Non of this has been reflected in the price of AXN models.

I sympathise with you as a small retailer. You are stuck in a position where you find it very difficult to compete with retailers like Hobby King. I understand this. I understand this because I used to be a small retailer. It is a very difficult thing to make a living wage that way and while I would love to support small retailers, who work so hard to try and develop their business, and provide great customer support the way that you do, I also have to balance what little money I have to spend on models against what is available in the market at prices that I can afford. Paying my bills and keeping a roof over my head always takes priority over buying foam planes.

Unfortunately, it seems that Chinese manufacturers are going the same way that Japan did. Start by copying everybody elses product, sell it cheap, and everybody wants it. The unfortunate thing is, that they then forget that selling it cheap is why everybody wanted it. They get greedy and the prices go up to match the rest of the world. In doing that they entirely lose any competetive advantage, and everybody, especially small retailers like yourself lose out.

The other problem for China right now is that world currency markets have changed dramatically and rapidly. In a matter of months, it has become way more expensive to import items and way more difficult for China to export them. So the effective price has increased as a result of the state of the world money markets.

I would love to support you, but, when it's cheaper to buy an Easystar locally than it is to buy an AXN Cloudsfly from Hong Kong, I unfortunately have to choose to buy the local product. Sorry....

Best Regards,
Julian (Fozzy The Bear)
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Old Feb 25, 2009, 09:03 AM
Hooper, full throttle!
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USA, NY, East Islip
Joined Feb 2004
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FozzyTheBear
I don't see that the AXN Cloudsfly has any major advantages over the Easystar,
Best Regards,
Julian (Fozzy The Bear)
I think a included brushless motor vs the Multiplex Easy Stars brushed inefficient motor a major advantage. The videos show much more spirited performance of the AXN vs say a stock easy star.

Also the AXN model comes out of the box with ailerons <4 channel> vs the RET of the Easy Star. Again another advantage. I don't think rudder rolls are going to be 1/2 as fun as compared to what the AXN model will do right out of the box.

Lets be fair about this. The AXN out of the box has some advantages over the Easy Star.

Tommy D
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Old Feb 25, 2009, 09:22 AM
Wakka Wakka
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Joined Jun 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tommy D
Lets be fair about this. The AXN out of the box has some advantages over the Easy Star.
Just to remind you of the conversation you had with people, before the price appeared Tommy....

Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by inline300
Hugh, Im in the U.S. and was thinking about one of these...actually have it in my cart on HC just waiting for the feel good moment to click buy now...any hints as to your price? Feel free to PM details, I can keep the info to myself.


"My" price? Cheaper then HC or their would be no point of me chiming in.
Relax for a bit and Ill post the numbers as soon as I get word!
Tommy D
The price isn't cheaper than HC by the time you add in the things that HC are including and Phillip is not including..... That was the whole premise of what you were pushing in the first place.

I've still got to add servos, ESC and Motor to the Easystar, agreed.... but the difference costs more than the price of an outrunner, which is what you're claiming is an advantage on the AXN and I've still got to add servos and an ESC to the AXN.

As for ailerons, the Easystar to aileron mod is easy enough to do... just cut them out and recess the wing for the servos.

For me personally, the numbers don't add up. Now that is a personal thing and I'm sure if somebody would rather buy an AXN than an Easystar, then they have the choice to do that and I'm sure they'll enjoy flying one. I would never say don't buy one. I also wouldn't say don't go to Phillip, or don't go to HK/HC But as I said, for me personally it just doesn't work out. especially given the higher costs of shipping to the UK.

The Easystar costs 43 GBP that's $61 USD... and I can walk into a shop and pick it off the shelf for that price and I have quite a few outrunners in the spares box that would fit at no further cost.
The AXN from Phillip on the other hand costs $59 USD Plus $39USD Shipping... Total nearly $100 USD. The maths doesn't add up because for me, that makes it near to twice the price of the Easystar. On top of that, if customs stop it on the way in, then it could end up at nearly 3 times the price of the Easystar.

If the total price had been at least $20 to $30 lower, Then I'd have ordered one straight away, because it is a nice plane.

Best Regards,
Julian (Fozzy The Bear)
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Old Feb 25, 2009, 10:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FozzyTheBear
The difficulty for me is that a Multiplex Easystar is cheaper to buy. I don't see that the AXN Cloudsfly has any major advantages over the Easystar, it is meant to be a copy of the Easystar design style and purpose anyway.
You're right. The AXN has a few advantages, but nothing major. And as I pointed out in post 76, the Easy Star IMO has more.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FozzyTheBear
In the case of AXN nothing but a piece of molded packing foam that is a copy of somebody elses product. AXN even have the nerve to describe it a "New Elapor Material"

The Material AXN use, is a Polyethelene foam. It is not "Elapor" which is the trade name owned by Multiplex. Elapor foam is blended Polypropelene and Polystyrene foam. Now I personally consider the foam used by AXN to actually be superior to Elapor. It is in fact a much better material. Surface finish is better and crash resistance is better. BUT as a raw material it is also very significantly cheaper than Elapor to manufacture. AXN also has very significantly cheaper labour costs. Non of this has been reflected in the price of AXN models.
It is pretty sad they're using the trade name Elapor, but it also says it's EPO. Supposedly, Elapor is EPO.
But them calling the Clouds Fly Elapor is like everyone calling all MP3 players iPods (man, I hate that), or people calling any business jet they see a Lear (also hate that). So I guess Elapor is EPO, but EPO isn't always Elapor just like all ipods are MP3 players, but not all MP3 players are ipods, etc.


BTW, HC sells the same style motors that the Clouds Fly comes with for $6-$7, but only at 8xx Kv and 1000 Kv, strange that they say they're "for the Floater Jet", when I don't think those would work very well in it. Also strange they don't sell the 2208N 2200 KV separately, which is what the plane comes with.
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