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Old Jun 09, 2012, 04:17 PM
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Originally Posted by ajbaker View Post
It actually all makes sense - in a negative perspective. There are only two possibilities which I will list in order of probability:
1. The new motor that you put on the plane had the center of the output shaft set too long meaning - when you mounted the motor, the center shaft was rubbing up against the plastic mount on the plane (you will see the mark on the plastic mount)
2. Prop is on backwards.
3. You prop is terribly out of balance. (unlikely, but still a possibility).

What is good and what is bad -
Your original ESC and Datrum ESC are probably shot (more testing needed after sequence below).
Your original motor and the second motor you used are probably trash (more testing needed after sequence below).
Your 50A ESC is just fine.

Suggestion:
You can do all of the above logic in reverse by doing the following.
Mount the whichever motor it was that was the coolest during testing. (I lost track).
Make certain that it rotates VERY freely and is not rubbing the plastic.
Use you 50A ESC.
Now, go have a nice time flying and when you get back you will be very happy and your head will be a lot clearer and you can work all the logic above to figure out for sure what is good and what is bad from above. Keep us posted. Your situation is interesting.
AJ
all three motors are stock floater jet motors from hobby king and do the same thing,...even original motor with several flights on it,but strangely it work fantastic when it did work...nothing was rubbing of binding...prop or no prop mounted or held in my hand after just 20 seconds testing 2nd brand new motor holding in hand no prop it started studdering then got worse and heated up..my 50 amp esc also heated up...the second motor got totally fried and fried yesterday in 2 mins of flight worked great until it failed abruptly..the brand new 25 amp..duram esc also was fried in that 2 minute 1/2 throttle flight using stock prop which was balanced fine(no vibration in preflight)...Today i flew plane with the 50 amp exceed esc and 1320kv exceed optimum out runner i bought last week,,i used stock prop had 4- 12 min flights...everything ran smooth and cool...only thing is the stock 5x5 prop with the exceed was a lot slower then the axn with stock motor...originally this plane had three times the speed as it does with the exceed motor..i think the stock is 2100kv...so i was wondering if i switched to a 6x6 if i would get similar performance...Anyway i guess its possible to purchase 3 bad motors in a row...thanks for helping me out this really is confusing
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Old Jun 09, 2012, 04:28 PM
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Originally Posted by box13 View Post
My thoughts:
1.The motor is crap....
2.Wrong timing(low possibilities because it was working at first)
3.you putted the prop in wrong direction and that caused vibrations and pushed motors to the limit and it got burned..

Can you plz post specs of the motor? (kv, watts,etc)
Good luck mate but i think that this motor has already gone to waste:/

P.S.If i where you i would buy the original motor of the axn as it is epic and a turnigy plush 25-30 amps to keep my head out of trouble!
these are all original floater jet motors from HK..first one(came with plane) was fantastic ran cool and had amazing performance compared to my stock dynam hawk sky...Also prop was on correct and there was no rubbing or vibration...other two motors were benched tested and both studdered and got hot and smoked..thanks
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Old Jun 09, 2012, 07:30 PM
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Sydney, Australia
Joined Jan 2007
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Quote:
if i switched to a 6x6 if i would get similar performance
I think you would be better staying with the 6x4 props recommended elsewhere in this thread as 6x6 probably has too much pitch to be efficient with these high kV (i.e high revving) motors.
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Old Jun 09, 2012, 07:34 PM
Firepower
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North Brisbane, Australia
Joined Mar 2010
3,049 Posts
Is the photo in line with your thinking?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ajbaker View Post
When viewing from the top of the airplane, the motor is turned CCW too much. obviously rotate the motor CW until problem is solved. What you have is a very common problem and that is typically the fix.
AJ
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Old Jun 09, 2012, 08:11 PM
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Originally Posted by richard9999 View Post
I think you would be better staying with the 6x4 props recommended elsewhere in this thread as 6x6 probably has too much pitch to be efficient with these high kV (i.e high revving) motors.
I don't have high KV motor... stock is over 2000kv...my exceed optimum high performance on there now is only 1360kv and Plane is moving less then half as fast through the air so i was hoping maybe changing to 6x6 would increase thrust so this plane was'nt so boring to fly,since this sentup everything stays very cool...it barely can do one loop and takes about a week..lol...before the stock motor crapped on me i was doing a loop every 3 seconds and crazy fast barrell rolls,was a blast to fly... I wish i could figure out what the problem is with these replacement motors...but its a big mystery.. i contacted HK and sent them my demo video also..thanks
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Old Jun 09, 2012, 08:58 PM
Just thumbing through...
victapilot's Avatar
United States, SC, Simpsonville
Joined Feb 2009
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With a 1360kv motor, you could try 6in pitch prop, or go to 4s.
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Old Jun 09, 2012, 09:18 PM
BGR
Foam Junkie
United States, CA, Oceanside
Joined Dec 2003
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Sometimes things get so mixed up that one cannot see through a problem clearly. This was the case with my AXN.

Today I made sure the battery was pushed all the way up front which eliminated the porpoising. I thought I had the CG right but a little more made alot of difference.

As suggested I used 1/3 throttle to launch rather than the 2/3 to 3/4 throttle I was using which eliminated the wild launches.

The torque roll is still there but it is minor now that the CG is correct.

Thanks guys for all the input...it pointed me in the right direction. I now have a plane that flies like I wanted.

Barry
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Old Jun 09, 2012, 11:43 PM
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Originally Posted by victapilot View Post
With a 1360kv motor, you could try 6in pitch prop, or go to 4s.
If i can't get it to perform i will remove this motor rather then buy more batteries as i have a ton already and just bought 3more 1800 packs for floater and a new 1100mm hellcat i have yet to maiden...but i do get wherer your coming from not sure if a 6x6 will add enough performance...it was great for a while using the first stock motor i really need to figure out whats wrong with these motors...only one thing makes sense actually 2 things..either they are all diffective junk or i need to set timing on my esc's maybe these motors are very touchy compared to other motors i have...thanks
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Old Jun 09, 2012, 11:58 PM
Argue for your limitations
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Lincoln, CA
Joined Oct 2006
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Looks good to me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Firepower View Post
Is the photo in line with your thinking?
Exactly. That WILL fix your problem. Oh, if the wing is not warped.
AJ
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Old Jun 10, 2012, 12:13 AM
Argue for your limitations
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Lincoln, CA
Joined Oct 2006
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Strong suggestion.

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Originally Posted by hate2crash View Post
If i can't get it to perform i will remove this motor rather then buy more batteries as i have a ton already and
1. just bought 3more 1800 packs for floater. That is my LiPo of choice for mine.
2. but i do get wherer your coming from not sure if a 6x6 will add enough performance...it was great for a while using the first stock motor
3. i really need to figure out whats wrong with these motors...only one thing makes sense actually 2 things..either they are all diffective junk or i need to set timing on my esc's maybe these motors are very touchy compared to other motors i have...thanks
1. I have no idea where you would put a 4th LiPo anyhow.
2. It wouldn't. Worse than that, that motor was NOT designed for a 4S Lipo and a fire would probably be the result - That is what happend to me when I did that.
3. Me, too. I have a hard time believing that you have all defective motors. But, stranger things have happened. I would not rule that out. Keep us informed. I, for one would really like to know how many of those motors end up being usable.
Finally -
Please, Please, Please, get a Watt Meter - OOS. But THIS one is in stock but it is 2X more expensive. For me, I would pay the extra just to have one. When all of the guys are messing around with different props, motors, or ESC's, the WM is our guru. Without it, the guessing that one must do can cause damage that far exceeds the cost of a WM. If I have to type another please, I would be begging. But, I would beg if you will just do it. When you have #'s to share, any of us can be a LOT more helpful.
AJ
P.S. Here is what happened when I put a 4S on my motor: see pics...
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Old Jun 10, 2012, 12:34 AM
Argue for your limitations
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Lincoln, CA
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Source please

Quote:
Originally Posted by hate2crash View Post
i will remove this motor
Where did you get your motor? I would like to make sure we are comparing apples and apples. Also, please post a picture of it.
AJ
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Old Jun 10, 2012, 02:06 AM
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Originally Posted by ajbaker View Post
Where did you get your motor? I would like to make sure we are comparing apples and apples. Also, please post a picture of it.
AJ
The motor i am talking about is stock floater jet outrunner motor sold at hobbyking for $8.59 ...i think its an esc issue(timing)... what do u guys set your timing on for stock floater motor...i ordered 2 different ones the HK brick 30amp for about $9 and HK 25-30amp for $6 plus another floater motor...I was told by the guy that did the 3 part building video on utube that the stock esc is crappy and he says no body hardly ever has problem with stock floater motor at the club he belongs to( i do think it was great when it worked)...i think a lot of his friends love this little bird...anyway so in 10 days i should receive my parts...in the mean time i am itching to fly my hellcat 1100 or dynam t-28 which i built and have sitting in my living room.also have an airfield 800mm waiting on parts to finish and adynam p51 still in box for when i get much better...i just like the floater because its stress free flying and i have crashed it several times,but these other planes need a hard landing strip and being a newbee i just don't want to crash them..so i may just wait for those parts.after all...thanks
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Old Jun 10, 2012, 02:14 AM
Argue for your limitations
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Lincoln, CA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hate2crash View Post
The motor i am talking about is stock floater jet outrunner motor sold at hobbyking for $8.59 ..
My apologies. I can sure tell that I did not ask the question correctly. You answered my question exactly as I asked it. What I meant to ask was - Who made the 1360Kv motor (in post #10550) and what are its specs? TIA.
AJ
P.S. Is it this motor? http://www.hobbypartz.com/86ma58-2210-1360kv.html
If so, that is the same one I burnt up on a 4S.
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Old Jun 10, 2012, 02:21 AM
More coffee, please!
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Austria, Wien, Vienna
Joined Jul 2011
646 Posts
hmm.. my stock motor works on all timings, I think that shouldn't be the problem. that watt meter would be the next step for sure.
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Old Jun 10, 2012, 02:49 AM
Argue for your limitations
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Lincoln, CA
Joined Oct 2006
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Timing settings - How to set it perfectly (hee, hee, hee)

Quote:
Originally Posted by hate2crash View Post
If i can't get it to perform i will remove this motor rather then buy more batteries as i have a ton already and just bought 3more 1800 packs for floater and a new 1100mm hellcat i have yet to maiden...but i do get wherer your coming from not sure if a 6x6 will add enough performance...it was great for a while using the first stock motor i really need to figure out whats wrong with these motors...only one thing makes sense actually 2 things..either they are all diffective junk or i need to set timing on my esc's maybe these motors are very touchy compared to other motors i have...thanks
Setting the timing of and ESC, is a function of the ESC that you choose and the suggestions from the manufacturer. Those suggestions almost always read like this: Usually, low timing value can be used for most motors.
A motor having 2 poles-Use Low timing.
A motor having more than 6 poles-Use medium timing to get high efficiency.
For higher speed, higher timing can be chosen.
All of that information is right from the spec sheet for almost every ESC that I own (~108).
My experience - I use high timing for every motor that I own whether inrunner or outrunner. So far (knocking on wood, I have had no problems). On the other hand, setting an ESC for low or medium timing will NOT work on any of my MicroDan(MD) motors - no way, now how. Prof100 had the same experience - High timing only. So, what is all of the above is most correct. The first part is way too ambiguous for me. The second part only applies to MD motors. The choice is yours. Obviously, I would suggest setting yours to high timing for any motor that you put on the CF.
AJ
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