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Old Jun 08, 2012, 07:17 PM
Flying the Spyder
eaglescry24's Avatar
United States, PA, Parkesburg
Joined Mar 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phlyers View Post
What else could cause the CF to climb with no input besides trim and CG? Control surfaces appear to be as flat as they can be. Thrust angle of the motor maybe?
Wing tips warped?
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Old Jun 08, 2012, 07:37 PM
I've got gas
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United States, PA, Quakertown
Joined Aug 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eaglescry24 View Post
Wing tips warped?
Tips are removed. Only thing I did different was add a microdan motor and a standalone BEC. Again, CG is good.
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Old Jun 08, 2012, 07:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phlyers View Post
What else could cause the CF to climb with no input besides trim and CG? Control surfaces appear to be as flat as they can be. Thrust angle of the motor maybe?
Thrust angle can definity do that but then probably the propeller would need to be pointing waay high..

incidence of the rear stab but we can get that under trim area
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Old Jun 08, 2012, 07:53 PM
I've got gas
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United States, PA, Quakertown
Joined Aug 2011
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Ya doubt it's the angle. I had some carbon rod to stiffen the rear stab and the tips of the stab looked pointed up. I took the rod out and will test it when I can get to the field next.
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Old Jun 08, 2012, 09:33 PM
Firepower
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North Brisbane, Australia
Joined Mar 2010
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As mentioned by JLT_GTI the rear stabilizer/tailplane, have you looked from underneath and checked if the rear of the tailplane where it meets the body is sitting down fully or sticking up a bit.

It is a bit hard to check if there is a lot of glue in that area. Do not ask me how I know about this. No more CA for me gluing things like this on.



Quote:
Originally Posted by phlyers View Post
Ya doubt it's the angle. I had some carbon rod to stiffen the rear stab and the tips of the stab looked pointed up. I took the rod out and will test it when I can get to the field next.
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Old Jun 08, 2012, 09:45 PM
BGR
Foam Junkie
San Diego
Joined Dec 2003
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Originally Posted by Firepower View Post
DO NOT GLUE IN THE WINGS.
Got it. I have plenty of tape.

Quote:
The motors on the Floaters are usually pointing about straight but I understand they are suppose to point like in the photo to overcome the centrifical force of the motor.
Looking at the design of the motor mount there is no way that it was intended to be anything but straight. I tried it that way and as you stated it needs some angle to offset the roll.

Quote:
I would not do throttle/aileron mixing as no one else has that problem.
.
I guess I am one of the few that left the motor where it was. On cheap planes I try to avoid loosening screws as it always seems to end bad. But I will dig up some washers and point the motor thrust starboard yarrrrr!

.
Quote:
See how you go.
Well I have not crashed it yet after 11 flights so I see me going good despite the lack of a relaxing flight with the AXN.

Barry
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Old Jun 08, 2012, 11:07 PM
Firepower
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North Brisbane, Australia
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Good stuff eleven flights and no crashes.

From memory your trouble is it turns right on launch. If your motor looks straight I would not change it. These planes are flying perfectly with no angle on the motor but for those who do change it, the MOTOR ANGLE IS 2 DEGREES which is not much.

So have you trimmed it (when flying high so as you do not crash it) so it flies perfectly straight with the motor on. We if it does that it should fly straight when you throw it. I guess you have about half throttle before you throw it. All throws MUST be straight into the wind.

Do not smash it but I can throw mine all day without turning the motor on and land it perfectly. Have you even tried throwing it without the motor on and it flies PERFECTLY straight. When throwing hard MAKE SURE you throw at the horizon NOT ABOVE and if enough air speed, depending on the wind, you can get it to go quite high.

WHEN DOING THIS:
1. Do not get the nose too high and stall it.
2. I keep a finger on the elevator with a very small amount of up and adjust it after the throw. This is to make sure you do not nose dive. Remember if you trimmed it for the motor on it will need a bit of up to keep it level with the motor off.
If not confident with this do not do it.

Instead of changing the motor you may have a wing warp and you may have to have quite a bit of up on one aileron to fly straight. Do not ask me how I know. Doing the above throw test and adjusting the aileron until it flies straight will check this.

But as I said I guess you have trimmed the elevator and ailerons with the motor on so as to fly straight. This is usually done in the first flight of a plane.


Quote:
Originally Posted by BGR View Post
Got it. I have plenty of tape.



Looking at the design of the motor mount there is no way that it was intended to be anything but straight. I tried it that way and as you stated it needs some angle to offset the roll.



I guess I am one of the few that left the motor where it was. On cheap planes I try to avoid loosening screws as it always seems to end bad. But I will dig up some washers and point the motor thrust starboard yarrrrr!

.

Well I have not crashed it yet after 11 flights so I see me going good despite the lack of a relaxing flight with the AXN.

Barry
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Last edited by Firepower; Jun 08, 2012 at 11:41 PM.
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Old Jun 09, 2012, 12:31 AM
Argue for your limitations
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Lincoln, CA
Joined Oct 2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phlyers View Post
Tips are removed. Only thing I did different was add a microdan motor and a standalone BEC. Again, CG is good.
The Microdan 2505-2535 w\2535 Kv motor on a SkyS is awesome. Be sure to take pics of your final build. TIA.
AJ
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Last edited by ajbaker; Jun 09, 2012 at 12:47 AM. Reason: typos
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Old Jun 09, 2012, 05:03 AM
I've got gas
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United States, PA, Quakertown
Joined Aug 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ajbaker View Post
The Microdan 2505-2535 w\2535 Kv motor on a SkyS is awesome. Be sure to take pics of your final build. TIA.
AJ
I have the 2505/2900kv
Ton of power an unlimited vertical. 4S is even wilder
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Old Jun 09, 2012, 01:22 PM
hate2crash
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Old Jun 09, 2012, 01:58 PM
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My thoughts:
1.The motor is crap....
2.Wrong timing(low possibilities because it was working at first)
3.you putted the prop in wrong direction and that caused vibrations and pushed motors to the limit and it got burned..

Can you plz post specs of the motor? (kv, watts,etc)
Good luck mate but i think that this motor has already gone to waste:/

P.S.If i where you i would buy the original motor of the axn as it is epic and a turnigy plush 25-30 amps to keep my head out of trouble!
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Old Jun 09, 2012, 02:13 PM
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Well .. mystery solved

Today there was no wind at all in the slope.. so time to test the repaired CloudsFly

and again it veers off to the right ... but then after trimming... i turned off the motor and.. it began veering off to the left

It veers off to the right quite a lot under power only.. Seems like Firepower was right.. the motor is causing the roll... it clearly happent because the incident of the long range loss but its odd since i cant see the motor pod any warped or changed..

now... wich way i must tilt the motor to correct this? orient the propeller to the left ? (if lookin from behind)
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Old Jun 09, 2012, 02:15 PM
Argue for your limitations
ajbaker's Avatar
Lincoln, CA
Joined Oct 2006
8,421 Posts
Shoot the Trouble OR is that trouble shoot?

Quote:
Originally Posted by hate2crash View Post
High I made a video of my AxN floater jet motor/esc problem hoping someone here could help me figure out whats going on...my stock setup was trouble free and a great performance setup could get almost completely verticle..After approx 15-20 10 min flights motor first started studdering and i messed with it in field and it would finally run pretty smooth for a while then it got real bad got very hot and smoked like crazy... replaced motor and new motor studdered right away on test on bench and esc was very hot...switched original turnigy 25amp esc with new dertrum 25amp... it ran smooth but esc got very hot in short time..made somemore tests using 50 amp esc which also got hot with the motor and today took plane and it flew for 2 mins and cut off when it landed motor was so hot it melted plastic mount and even all the mount screw vibrated out...The prop was balanced and again this stock setup ran perfect and i was not planning to change a thing...I am thinking motor timing problem,but never experienced anything like this before..Thanks for taking the time to help me so i can get back in the air it is appreciated... http://youtu.be/8wl-xnRnEgY
It actually all makes sense - in a negative perspective. There are only two possibilities which I will list in order of probability:
1. The new motor that you put on the plane had the center of the output shaft set too long meaning - when you mounted the motor, the center shaft was rubbing up against the plastic mount on the plane (you will see the mark on the plastic mount)
2. Prop is on backwards.
3. You prop is terribly out of balance. (unlikely, but still a possibility).

What is good and what is bad -
Your original ESC and Datrum ESC are probably shot (more testing needed after sequence below).
Your original motor and the second motor you used are probably trash (more testing needed after sequence below).
Your 50A ESC is just fine.

Suggestion:
You can do all of the above logic in reverse by doing the following.
Mount the whichever motor it was that was the coolest during testing. (I lost track).
Make certain that it rotates VERY freely and is not rubbing the plastic.
Use you 50A ESC.
Now, go have a nice time flying and when you get back you will be very happy and your head will be a lot clearer and you can work all the logic above to figure out for sure what is good and what is bad from above. Keep us posted. Your situation is interesting.
AJ
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Old Jun 09, 2012, 02:22 PM
Argue for your limitations
ajbaker's Avatar
Lincoln, CA
Joined Oct 2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JLT_GTI View Post
Well .. mystery solved

Today there was no wind at all in the slope.. so time to test the repaired CloudsFly

and again it veers off to the right ... but then after trimming... i turned off the motor and.. it began veering off to the left

It veers off to the right quite a lot under power only.. Seems like Firepower was right.. the motor is causing the roll... it clearly happent because the incident of the long range loss but its odd since i cant see the motor pod any warped or changed..

now... wich way i must tilt the motor to correct this? orient the propeller to the left ? (if lookin from behind)
When viewing from the top of the airplane, the motor is turned CCW too much. obviously rotate the motor CW until problem is solved. What you have is a very common problem and that is typically the fix.
AJ
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Old Jun 09, 2012, 03:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ajbaker View Post
When viewing from the top of the airplane, the motor is turned CCW too much. obviously rotate the motor CW until problem is solved. What you have is a very common problem and that is typically the fix.
AJ
So esentially if in this pic the motor is tilted to the left (seen from abobe and behind)




I have to tilt it to the right?
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