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Old Jun 08, 2012, 04:27 AM
Argue for your limitations
ajbaker's Avatar
Lincoln, CA
Joined Oct 2006
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orig post correct
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Last edited by ajbaker; Jun 09, 2012 at 12:30 AM.
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Old Jun 08, 2012, 04:55 AM
Firepower
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North Brisbane, Australia
Joined Mar 2010
3,276 Posts
I think I mentioned your problem is probably a c of g one so the photos may not show much.

It can just be a camera angle and my line may not be exactly right but I tried to line up the line in the photo with the nose of the plane and the rear of the fin (fixed part).

It appears the motor is pointing the wrong way. I did a LOT of adjusting of the motor angles years ago and had to shim the motor to different angles.

See what I mentioned to BGR about the angle of the motor.

I see from looking from the nose the little tip on the left that you said you would like to cut off, is sticking up just a bit. I would probably try and keep them on or even make new tips shaped out of balsa unless foam is handy. My THICK HK CA will stick anything on and will not come off even on a small surface like that.

See what it looks like but I would shim the motor to the other side a bit and ensure the c of g is well forward. When we put the Fox motor angle just a little bit the wrong way, they would not fly.



Quote:
Originally Posted by JLT_GTI View Post
I should had re-readed the post before taking the photos now



Now i need a calm day to test it in safer conditions... in my eye it seems ok... dont mind the slight tilted horizontal stabilizer ..its been allways like that since day 1 and allways flew ok with very little trim

Also since i had to do the elapor soup again i renembered an idea of somebody here (dont renember who) and applied the hot water to the wing root sockets too .. the results are quite nice... now the wings get into the sockets tight again and lock very nicely (tought i use velcro to secure.. never had problems with loose wings)

Also im tempted to cut the horizontal stab tips down to the elevator surface widith.. both are quite smashed and break constantly.. but i dont know how it would affect flight...
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Last edited by Firepower; Jun 08, 2012 at 05:11 AM.
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Old Jun 08, 2012, 05:16 AM
Firepower
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North Brisbane, Australia
Joined Mar 2010
3,276 Posts
Who is going mad here (I can not say you that would be rude) or me.

Would you really need "up" elevator for additional weight to the nose?

Or is it additional weight to the tail not nose that was mentioned earlier.

But I could be wrong as I have not followed the previous posts too well on this one. Should I just go the bed and not be a stirrer?

We came over and traveled your side of USA and Canada three years ago and in September will do the other side for two months from Canada to Florida in two motor homes and a but trip from north to south. Should be fun parking at Walmarts overnight again.

Anyone know of anything I should see over on the eastern side of USA. Any good hobby shops mainly interested in FPV stuff but may be able to stick a MINI quadcopter in the bag.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ajbaker View Post
FWIW, I think it would need a bit more "up" elevator to compensate for the additional weight added to the nose. I reserve the right to be wrong, though.
AJ
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Last edited by Firepower; Jun 08, 2012 at 05:48 AM.
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Old Jun 08, 2012, 05:28 AM
Floater
Australia, NSW
Joined Dec 2011
29 Posts
maybe i just got lucky, it definitely needs some push on the stick to keep level, even more when i put in my 1800mah battery.
i have my camera mounted to the flat at the rear of the hatch opening, the radio tx velcrod there as well, the video tx back near the motor and the speedy pushed back in behind the servos.

a bit more glue in the nose will fix it
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Old Jun 08, 2012, 05:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Firepower View Post
I think I mentioned your problem is probably a c of g one so the photos may not show much.
Unlikely .. i use a 2200 batt , the ESC is right in front of the servos.. that usually lefts the plane slighty nose heavy wich works nicely (quite selfstable)..
Its highly unlikely that the plane is bad balanced now as little has changed .. at most it would be even more nose heavy since all repairs have been on the nose/cockpit


Quote:
It can just be a camera angle and my line may not be exactly right but I tried to line up the line in the photo with the nose of the plane and the rear of the fin (fixed part).

It appears the motor is pointing the wrong way. I did a LOT of adjusting of the motor angles years ago and had to shim the motor to different angles.
Could be.. tought so far the motor never influenced the plane's flight.. if i had to apply trim it remained the same with motor on or off.. hammering the motor all the suden when in a glide makes the nose drop (logical) but doesnt change the roll axis ..at least not that i can see
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Old Jun 08, 2012, 06:01 AM
Firepower
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North Brisbane, Australia
Joined Mar 2010
3,276 Posts
You might just have to fall out of the sky a bit more like I have been.

When you were over the trees did you have a lot of power on or when problems started take the power off.

We used to have those problems with 36mhz (72mhz in your language) in certain areas but you I guess would be on 2.4ghz.

Maybe we are all just stalling the planes and do not realise it. Guess you say you are not but I will see when I try mine again.

See how you go again. I am hoping my problem is me and I can fix that easier than the plane. (well maybe)


Quote:
Originally Posted by JLT_GTI View Post
Unlikely .. i use a 2200 batt , the ESC is right in front of the servos.. that usually lefts the plane slighty nose heavy wich works nicely (quite selfstable)..
Its highly unlikely that the plane is bad balanced now as little has changed .. at most it would be even more nose heavy since all repairs have been on the nose/cockpit




Could be.. tought so far the motor never influenced the plane's flight.. if i had to apply trim it remained the same with motor on or off.. hammering the motor all the suden when in a glide makes the nose drop (logical) but doesnt change the roll axis ..at least not that i can see
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Old Jun 08, 2012, 06:52 AM
Just thumbing through...
victapilot's Avatar
United States, SC, Simpsonville
Joined Feb 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Firepower View Post
Who is going mad here (I can not say you that would be rude) or me.

Would you really need "up" elevator for additional weight to the nose?

Or is it additional weight to the tail not nose that was mentioned earlier.

But I could be wrong as I have not followed the previous posts too well on this one. Should I just go the bed and not be a stirrer?

We came over and traveled your side of USA and Canada three years ago and in September will do the other side for two months from Canada to Florida in two motor homes and a but trip from north to south. Should be fun parking at Walmarts overnight again.

Anyone know of anything I should see over on the eastern side of USA. Any good hobby shops mainly interested in FPV stuff but may be able to stick a MINI quadcopter in the bag.
End of September, I will be here! Unbeatable flying site, hospitality, vendor discounts!!!

http://www.joenall.com/eweek/eweek.htm
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Old Jun 08, 2012, 07:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Firepower View Post
You might just have to fall out of the sky a bit more like I have been.

When you were over the trees did you have a lot of power on or when problems started take the power off.
Yeah.. i was begining to believe i just stalled it .. the first time was gliding back and was 500m away.. too far to see it clearly and it was just passing high over tress in a mount side.. it could be just afected by some nasty air or just stalled or both combined.. the loss of control would be an ilusion since the plane would be so low in speed and falling that it wouldnt had air over the surfaces to respond..
The second time was under power but was low on power and the area where it spiraled its an area that has played nasty tricks in the past...i think its the combination of nearby buildings , trees and wind direction and low speed in a not well trimmed plane..


Quote:
We used to have those problems with 36mhz (72mhz in your language) in certain areas but you I guess would be on 2.4ghz.
I fly in 35mhz (will migrate to 2.4ghz as soon as i begin to understand my FlySky 9X radio with Er9X and i receibe my 6ch turnigy Rx ) but never had radio glitches.. only in home indoors and with the radio next to the Rx (lots of servo jitter.. but goes away outdoors)
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Old Jun 08, 2012, 08:52 AM
Firepower
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North Brisbane, Australia
Joined Mar 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by victapilot View Post
End of September, I will be here! Unbeatable flying site, hospitality, vendor discounts!!!

http://www.joenall.com/eweek/eweek.htm
Thanks for the advice on that great event and there will be some good stall holders selling stuff.

But Bugger - That will be part of the bus trip from the north to the south. I have never taken a bus trip before (as buses crash ) and always drive myself even in USA where you drive on the wrong side of the road. Three years ago I did 11,000 klm (hired in Canada then went inland from Vancover to LasVagas and back to Vancover along the coast on the wrong side of the road and no damage. We are getting the second motor home in Florida and driving all around that area.

Will be a great event, as you say.
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Old Jun 08, 2012, 08:56 AM
Argue for your limitations
ajbaker's Avatar
Lincoln, CA
Joined Oct 2006
8,422 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Firepower View Post
Who is going mad here (I can not say you that would be rude) or me.

Would you really need "up" elevator for additional weight to the nose?

Or is it additional weight to the tail not nose that was mentioned earlier.
.
I like to avoid right or wrong when possible. We are just comparing perspectives trying to get on the same page in case a beginner asks. Ok. Having said that, imagine adding a 1oz (~28g) on the horizontal stabilizer. That makes it tail heavy. I am sure we can agree on that. Now, what do we have to do the trim the elevator to compensate for that weight - up or down elevator? I "think" it would be down elevator to have the wind passing by to push the horizontal stab up. Does that make sense? I think both of us totally understand what is going on. Maybe we (me) are just reading the original post differently.
AJ
Original post:
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigmoe View Post
heh, you should see it now, after i put 4 packs thru it and flew off the screen for a bit (and head butted the ground a few times!)

camera and tx gear works well, even balanced ok (a bit rear biased i think, needed a fair amount of down elevator to stay level).
awesome fun flying today but now its time for more hot glue
After reading that again very closely, I think he is saying that it is tail heavy via "rear biased" which I interpreted incorrectly. The post then is correct. Whew, are we both on the same page now?
Thanks for the gentle challenge. I stand corrected.
AJ
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Old Jun 08, 2012, 09:36 AM
Firepower
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North Brisbane, Australia
Joined Mar 2010
3,276 Posts
It is too late in the night here to think about that one again.

I mainly read your comment and not the previous on it and after reading it again you comment by itself does make sense. I must be going mad.

All the best.
Col


Quote:
Originally Posted by ajbaker View Post
I like to avoid right or wrong when possible. We are just comparing perspectives trying to get on the same page in case a beginner asks. Ok. Having said that, imagine adding a 1oz (~28g) on the horizontal stabilizer. That makes it tail heavy. I am sure we can agree on that. Now, what do we have to do the trim the elevator to compensate for that weight - up or down elevator? I "think" it would be down elevator to have the wind passing by to push the horizontal stab up. Does that make sense? I think both of us totally understand what is going on. Maybe we (me) are just reading the original post differently.
AJ
Original post:


After reading that again very closely, I think he is saying that it is tail heavy via "rear biased" which I interpreted incorrectly. The post then is correct. Whew, are we both on the same page now?
Thanks for the gentle challenge. I stand corrected.
AJ
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Old Jun 08, 2012, 09:55 AM
Firepower
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North Brisbane, Australia
Joined Mar 2010
3,276 Posts
You say "i was beginning to believe i just stalled it"

I think a few of us have been doing that lately but my problem is mine has only been with the Floater. Being 500meters away and coming back towards me I would not see a stall.

In the Futaba 9C I use the FrSky modules now and they are brilliant with the telemetry or at least the beep when you are going out of range is good. Not sure if the FrSky's fit in your new TX. I do not use the FrSky RXs with only one antenna as I would not trust them but a lot use them.

For the FrSky module I have tried the patch antenna which is not bad (directional) but have bought a new/second hand one watt amplifier which sits on the module and the antenna screws into the amplifier. I have not been brave enough to plug the amplifier in as yet in case it blows up my TX. I guess it will not. I am only looking at that as a cheap sort of Long Range system for FPV. Probably 6 to 10klm with that but it will be a long time before I go that far.


Quote:
Originally Posted by JLT_GTI View Post
Yeah.. i was begining to believe i just stalled it .. the first time was gliding back and was 500m away.. too far to see it clearly and it was just passing high over tress in a mount side.. it could be just afected by some nasty air or just stalled or both combined.. the loss of control would be an ilusion since the plane would be so low in speed and falling that it wouldnt had air over the surfaces to respond..
The second time was under power but was low on power and the area where it spiraled its an area that has played nasty tricks in the past...i think its the combination of nearby buildings , trees and wind direction and low speed in a not well trimmed plane..

I fly in 35mhz (will migrate to 2.4ghz as soon as i begin to understand my FlySky 9X radio with Er9X and i receibe my 6ch turnigy Rx ) but never had radio glitches.. only in home indoors and with the radio next to the Rx (lots of servo jitter.. but goes away outdoors)
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Old Jun 08, 2012, 10:56 AM
Argue for your limitations
ajbaker's Avatar
Lincoln, CA
Joined Oct 2006
8,422 Posts
wrong thread-oops
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Old Jun 08, 2012, 02:56 PM
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Joined Jun 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ajbaker View Post
Where did it land?
AJ
good day AJ, if you look right at the end of the video, you'll notice that lands in the instant passing a motorcycle, going toward the kids. I even thought I would not get the touchdown, which came by still high and fast, but everything worked out, hug
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Old Jun 08, 2012, 06:44 PM
I've got gas
BrightCap232's Avatar
United States, PA, Quakertown
Joined Aug 2011
365 Posts
What else could cause the CF to climb with no input besides trim and CG? Control surfaces appear to be as flat as they can be. Thrust angle of the motor maybe?
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