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Old Jun 04, 2012, 01:33 AM
9W2DLR
Malaysia, Federal Territory of Putrajaya, Putrajaya
Joined Nov 2011
2,245 Posts
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Originally Posted by ajbaker View Post
I am sorry to hear about your misfortune. My guess is that you hit some kind of radio interference that caused you to lose communication. If so (again, it was just a guess), can you go to 2.4ghz and eliminate the problem in the future?
In my experience, any crashed AXN can be fixed. The problem is that eventually, it gets so heavy from all the repairs that it is almost impossible to fly or, at the best, it just isn't any fun to fly. That is what happened to my AXN CF #1. It just got too heavy. So, I stripped it and put all the electronics in my new BMI Arrow. It is just like the CF only it glides better and it is bigger and therefore, easier to see. Check it out when you get a moment. Here it is:
http://www.scaleflying.com/Glider-14...ly_p_2032.html
It is really an RR plane(s). Even the LIPo and charger are included. I paid $123 for the two of them (it is a 2 for 1 sale). If you wallet will allow it, I highly recommend it. If you like the CF, you will LOVE the Arrow.
AJ
to bad only for us residents we are on the other part of the world really love to have that
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Old Jun 04, 2012, 02:10 AM
Firepower
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North Brisbane, Australia
Joined Mar 2010
3,191 Posts
[QUOTE=JLT_GTI;21793366]
You say:
"i took her very high as usual to take the best views possible ... when the plane was barely visible i turn her around to return .. it turned and was heading back to me.. then i applied a small correction ..it turned..and then lost control."

Is it at all possible that when the plane was barely visible you throttled back quite a bit - probably normal reaction - and the elevator was kept level - normal again - then it was slow so the controls did not work too good. Then with more loss of speed the nose went down and it spiraled down.

I'm having a problem with my floater at the moment. I fly an EasyGlider, EasyStar, many wings etc but I am only having a problem with the Floater spiraling to the ground.

The floater has done it four times now and have started swapping out the electronics one at a time to see what is the fault. But I have a feeling it may be operator error and that I am stalling it and it goes down. Mine have happened in the distance where I could not see exactly what is going on. ( Might be going blind)

I do have a FY20 on board which is another thing I could possibly wrongly blame as I have had it turned off when it happened a couple of times. It may be me getting busy with the FY20 and not concentrating fully but on the last occasion it was pointing away and getting too far away and turned off the FY20 and unfortunately pulled the power off and the spiral started.

I had a camera on the elevator and rudder and I could not pull it out of the spiral.

Has anyone put their Floater in a SLOW spiral or accidentally done it and it was hard to pull out? When it is going down I guess it would be good to get airspeed and power on but hard to do when it happens quickly in the distance.

From the camera with the spiral down you can see the rudder is one of the things you need to do to pull it out.

The Floater was my favorite plane until recently. I guess it will be again as soon as I sort out this problem.

I'll put cameras on all control surfaces next time.
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Last edited by Firepower; Jun 04, 2012 at 02:35 AM.
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Old Jun 04, 2012, 02:46 AM
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richard9999's Avatar
Sydney, Australia
Joined Jan 2007
1,688 Posts
I assume all you guys put your telephone number on the plane? When I was learning to fly R/C I lost sight of my plane by letting if get behind a row of trees (beginners error). No sight of the plane and it obviously crashed, I assumed somewhere the other side of a river. Several weeks later I got a phone call from some people who were looking at their roof and found my plane there! Since then I always write my phone number on each plane.
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Old Jun 04, 2012, 03:26 AM
Argue for your limitations
ajbaker's Avatar
Lincoln, CA
Joined Oct 2006
8,422 Posts
[QUOTE=Firepower;21795490]
Quote:
Originally Posted by JLT_GTI View Post

The floater has done it four times now and have started swapping out the electronics one at a time to see what is the fault. But I have a feeling it may be operator error and that I am stalling it and it goes down. Mine have happened in the distance where I could not see exactly what is going on. ( Might be going blind)

I do have a FY20 on board which is another thing I could possibly wrongly blame as I have had it turned off when it happened a couple of times. It may be me getting busy with the FY20 and not concentrating fully but on the last occasion it was pointing away and getting too far away and turned off the FY20 and unfortunately pulled the power off and the spiral started.
Is your elevator gyro correction backwards? Then, when you have the nose go down a little, the FY20 makes it go down even more. That is what I would check first. Ask me how I know this.....
AJ
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Old Jun 04, 2012, 03:29 AM
Argue for your limitations
ajbaker's Avatar
Lincoln, CA
Joined Oct 2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by richard9999 View Post
I assume all you guys put your telephone number on the plane? When I was learning to fly R/C I lost sight of my plane by letting if get behind a row of trees (beginners error). No sight of the plane and it obviously crashed, I assumed somewhere the other side of a river. Several weeks later I got a phone call from some people who were looking at their roof and found my plane there! Since then I always write my phone number on each plane.
I currently have 33 RTF planes with LiPo, rcvr, everything. ALL of them have my info (home, cell, and work #'s). I don't like to put my address on it because I am not comfortable with that. If someone finds it, I am more than willing to drive over and get it and give them the $30 reward. I have only had one plane fly away and a guy called the next day. I went to get it and gave him the $30 which he refused. Human nature is always interesting.
AJ
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Old Jun 04, 2012, 05:10 AM
Firepower
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North Brisbane, Australia
Joined Mar 2010
3,191 Posts
[QUOTE=ajbaker;21795747]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Firepower View Post
Is your elevator gyro correction backwards? Then, when you have the nose go down a little, the FY20 makes it go down even more. That is what I would check first. Ask me how I know this.....
AJ
The FY20 is set up properly and have had a lot of good flights with it. I have gotten it back a couple of times when in the distance and did not know which direction it was going and quickly turned on the FY20 to keep it level and circle it a bit until it was coming back.

Those times I kept plenty of power on and there was no trouble.

With a couple of cameras on next time I should see what happens to cause the problem but I do not think it is the FY20. I missed filming the ailerons last time.

Good one about your FY20 and elevator. I usually check every flight all control surfaces on the ground by moving the plane in various directions. Not that they would change direction but just to assure me everything is working.

Col
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Old Jun 04, 2012, 06:05 AM
Just thumbing through...
victapilot's Avatar
United States, SC, Simpsonville
Joined Feb 2009
4,427 Posts
cg creep

Having need for down elevator on landing recently, I checked my cg and found it was back of where I thought!!

I have made a few minor repairs including injecting a few grams of gorilla glue in a crack in back of the pylon. Also it seems the nose is not as straight and long as before, so the battery might not be as far forward. I put an ounce of lead up in the nose and moved the cg back to the spar. Much better!!


I had a camera on the tail when I lost control at high altitude

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...postcount=9148

I write that off as a stall and unrecoverable spiral spin. It may be that a certain spiral occurs like deep stall. That's when the wing is stalled and the tail is in the wind shadow of the the wing, aka dirty air. Just a guess, but I did have time to release control, then try to recover, nothing worked...

Plane is fine now, I avoid stalls though.
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Old Jun 04, 2012, 07:32 AM
Argue for your limitations
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Lincoln, CA
Joined Oct 2006
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Victapilot posted it first.

[QUOTE=Firepower;21796073]
Quote:
Originally Posted by ajbaker View Post

The FY20 is set up properly and have had a lot of good flights with it. I have gotten it back a couple of times when in the distance and did not know which direction it was going and quickly turned on the FY20 to keep it level and circle it a bit until it was coming back.

Those times I kept plenty of power on and there was no trouble.

With a couple of cameras on next time I should see what happens to cause the problem but I do not think it is the FY20. I missed filming the ailerons last time.

Good one about your FY20 and elevator. I usually check every flight all control surfaces on the ground by moving the plane in various directions. Not that they would change direction but just to assure me everything is working.

Col
Yeah. What victapilot said... Is there any chance that your CG is too far aft? I know that you know all about that stuff and I am even a bit embarrassed to ask. But, is it possible.?
AJ
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Old Jun 04, 2012, 08:50 AM
Firepower
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North Brisbane, Australia
Joined Mar 2010
3,191 Posts
[QUOTE=ajbaker;21796794]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Firepower View Post
Yeah. What victapilot said... Is there any chance that your CG is too far aft? I know that you know all about that stuff and I am even a bit embarrassed to ask. But, is it possible.?
AJ
No problems asking because you might be right. On most of my planes I put a biro mark so I know exactly where the c of g is. This one it is usually known that the c of g is about the middle of the spar cover and mine is about around there.

Maybe about is not good enough. It is 57mm back from the leading edge or less than one eight of an inch behind the centre of the spar cover.

I see the Center of gravity is suppose to be 51.5 mm, range 49-55 mm from LE. I am 2mm over the range limit but 2mm might be all that it takes.

I have only recently taken off a 1 gram camera from the nose and a 2 gram video TX level with the rear of the outside of the body plus light hook up wires but that might be all that it takes.

I do recall having extra weight on the nose earlier on but I think I had a lighter LiPo at that stage. With the servos on the body behind the wing, FY20 behind a heavy 2200 LiPo which is as far forward as possible, fairly heavy Esc with a Castle Creations 10amp UBec on top of the body on the C of G, it looks like the heavy 2200 LiPo is too light. In future I'll only use the Castle Creations UBecs on my better planes and even though they are 10amp they are very light.

I have been saying that in my case it appears to be operator error. That is not the electrics so looks like operator error with the c of g.

It will be good to get the Floater back to normal because the Easy* and EasyGlider I have to sort of pay particular attention to taking off etc but with the Floater it is nice and relaxing and almost close your eyes when taking off. I bought the Floater after the Easy* and EasyGlider and have said for a long time I wished I had bought three Floaters instead. Particularly seeing I bought expensive motor and HiTec servos and the floater still has the standard motor and servos. ( I know I should have replaced the servos)

Thanks AJ - I think you are spot on with the C of G. I have always preferred to have the planes slightly nose heavy.

Col
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Old Jun 04, 2012, 09:51 AM
Firepower
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North Brisbane, Australia
Joined Mar 2010
3,191 Posts
I guess what you put in your heading "cg creep" is what happened to mine but in another way.

I do recall putting an extra small LiPo on the nose of mine quite a while ago but over time and in a rush to get flying these things get forgotten particularly when my c of g is "about" right.

Well actually the camera gear needed a small LiPo and I had that on the nose with the current setup but the camera gear was taken off recently.

That would be what happened. With the camera gear being removed I did not replace the weight of the small LiPo. Live and learn. (Well hopefully solved unless it happens again)

Thanks
Col

Quote:
Originally Posted by victapilot View Post
Having need for down elevator on landing recently, I checked my cg and found it was back of where I thought!!

I have made a few minor repairs including injecting a few grams of gorilla glue in a crack in back of the pylon. Also it seems the nose is not as straight and long as before, so the battery might not be as far forward. I put an ounce of lead up in the nose and moved the cg back to the spar. Much better!!


I had a camera on the tail when I lost control at high altitude

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...postcount=9148

I write that off as a stall and unrecoverable spiral spin. It may be that a certain spiral occurs like deep stall. That's when the wing is stalled and the tail is in the wind shadow of the the wing, aka dirty air. Just a guess, but I did have time to release control, then try to recover, nothing worked...

Plane is fine now, I avoid stalls though.
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Old Jun 04, 2012, 05:32 PM
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richard9999's Avatar
Sydney, Australia
Joined Jan 2007
1,688 Posts
Quote:
I put a biro mark so I know exactly where the c of g is.
I put a couple of shortened glass headed pins under the wings at the "good" CG point of all my planes. Much easier to locate than biro marks and gives a better balance pivot.
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Old Jun 04, 2012, 05:58 PM
Argue for your limitations
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Lincoln, CA
Joined Oct 2006
8,422 Posts
question

Quote:
Originally Posted by richard9999 View Post
I put a couple of shortened glass headed pins under the wings at the "good" CG point of all my planes. Much easier to locate than biro marks and gives a better balance pivot.
OK. I'll bite. What is a biro mark?
AJ
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Old Jun 04, 2012, 07:26 PM
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brace's Avatar
Australia, NSW, Ashby
Joined Jul 2011
219 Posts
Biro is a ball point pen
Love the plane and always take it out to the field (practically lives in the back of the ute) When all my other models are creating a headache this one makes a potentially bad day into a great day. I just pull it out and throw it up and have an absolute blast. Just perfect and will be my stock plane for a very long time I am sure.
richard9999 I love the idea of the glass pins perfect idea.
Glenn
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Old Jun 04, 2012, 09:17 PM
Firepower
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North Brisbane, Australia
Joined Mar 2010
3,191 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by ajbaker View Post
OK. I'll bite. What is a biro mark?
AJ
I said recently I usually put biro marks under the wings of the planes on the c of g.

Must dig up some pins as it is much easier and quicker to check it particularly when setting up a plane with loose stuff on top and trying to see the biro marks..
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Old Jun 04, 2012, 09:53 PM
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3d astronaut's Avatar
United States, MI, Paw Paw
Joined Sep 2011
4,108 Posts
You guys and your fancy pants gyro stabilizers anyone using gyro's to help with fpv on this bird? Really getting bit by the fpv bug and this thing seems like it would be perfect for it. Made a few tests with my old turnigy cam and they came out pretty good on my rigged platform. I have sense ordered the 2 servo tilt/pan setup from hobbyking. Cant wait for that to get here!
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