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Old Jan 23, 2009, 05:43 PM
have foam, will fly
waqa's Avatar
San Diego
Joined Dec 2008
278 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by XJet
It strikes me that this manufacturer might be advised to bring out a little stand-alone programmer that can be plugged into the transmitter.

The programmer device could probably be manufactured and retailed for US$50 and it would allow "at the field" updates/changes to be made without recourse to a PC. A simple LCD display ($8), a microcontroller with USB interface ($5), some switches, a cable and a case ($10).

That would allow such a system to start competing with the low-end of the "big name" systems and might encourage more sales into clubs where someone already has this gear. ie: several people could share the one programmer if they needed to.

Actually I think the interface is standard rs-232, maybe even 5v ttl. The usb cable it comes with has a usb-rs232 converter in the usb end and shows up as standard com port on pc (virtual com port driver).

So it would be easy to reverse engineer the programmer protocol by capturing the serial data moving to and from the tx. Sounds like a good PICAXE project! All values are simple 0-100 integers, some signed so add a small eeprom and store 100's of planes. So many cool things to build and so little time.
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Old Jan 23, 2009, 05:56 PM
have foam, will fly
waqa's Avatar
San Diego
Joined Dec 2008
278 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by keepitsimple
I am new on this forum.
I received my 2.4Ghz one week ago but did not yet fly (with) it.
I also installed the t6config.exe configuration tool.
Everything works fine and looks good.
However, I don't like the configuration tools, its rubbish.
So I decided to write my own configuration tool.
I Analyised the serial data to and from the transmitter.
Maybe someone could write a Pocket PC application , that could be very usefull in the field.
See following specification of the data:

/************************************************** ************************************************** *************
Description of Turborix 2.4Ghz Programmable Radio Gear Channel Data/Settings array's
/************************************************** ************************************************** *************

Baudrate is 115kbd
serial data : 8 bit, noparity, nohandshake

Channel data is send by transmitter approx every 20mSec.
Data burst duration (90uSec * 18 Bytes) is approx 1.6 mSec


Description of Channel data array ( 18 bytes )
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
index | description | Values
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
0 : header0 = 85
1 : header1 = 252
2 : high_byte of (ch1+1000)
3 : low_byte of (ch1+1000)
4 : high_byte of (ch2+1000)
5 : low_byte of (ch2+1000)
6 : high_byte of (ch3+1000)
7 : low_byte of (ch3+1000)
8 : high_byte of (ch4+1000)
9 : low_byte of (ch4+1000)
10: high_byte of (ch5+1000)
11: low_byte of (ch5+1000)
12: high_byte of (ch6+1000)
13: low_byte of (ch6+1000)
14: high_byte of 2044-(ch3+1000) !
15: low_byte of 2044-(ch3+1000) !
16: high_byte of checksum
17: low_byte of checksum


high_byte -> (Channelvalue + 1000) / 256
low_byte -> (Channelvalue + 1000) mod 256
checksum -> sum of bytes 2 to 15


/************************************************** ************************************************** *************
Description of Turborix 2.4Ghz Programmable Radio Gear Settings Data array ( 69 bytes )
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Settings 10,11,12 and 25 to 44 are only for helicopter



------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
index | description | Values
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
0 HeaderByte 1 -> always 85
1 HeaderByte 2 -> 253 in case of receiving settings from device ( query = 85,250,0 )
-> 255 in case of sending settings to device
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2 Model stick configuration -> high_nib(4..7) : Model > 1=0x0* 2=0x1* 3=0x2* 4=0x3*
-> low_nib (0..3) : Type > ACRO=0x*0 H-120=0x*1 H-90=0x*2 H-140=0x*3
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
3 CH1 - CH6 reverse bits -> b0..b5 <> Ch1..Ch6 normal=0 reverse=1
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
4 CH1 DualRate ON value -> 0..100%
5 CH1 DualRate OFF value -> 0..100%
6 CH2 DualRate ON value -> 0..100%
7 CH2 DualRate OFF value -> 0..100%
8 CH4 DualRate ON value -> 0..100%
9 CH4 DualRate OFF value -> 0..100%
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

helicopter (10,11,12)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
10 Swash AFR CH1 -> -100..+100 (two's complement format > 0x9c..0x64)
11 Swash AFR CH2 -> -100..+100 (two's complement format > 0x9c..0x64)
12 Swash AFR CH6 -> -100..+100 (two's complement format > 0x9c..0x64)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
13 CH1 Endpoint 1 -> 0..120%
14 CH1 Endpoint 2 -> 0..120%
15 CH2 Endpoint 1 -> 0..120%
16 CH2 Endpoint 2 -> 0..120%
17 CH3 Endpoint 1 -> 0..120%
18 CH3 Endpoint 2 -> 0..120%
19 CH4 Endpoint 1 -> 0..120%
20 CH4 Endpoint 2 -> 0..120%
21 CH5 Endpoint 1 -> 0..120%
22 CH5 Endpoint 2 -> 0..120%
23 CH6 Endpoint 1 -> 0..120%
24 CH6 Endpoint 2 -> 0..120%
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

helicopter (24..44)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
25 Throttle Curve EP0 NORMAL -> 0..100%
26 Throttle Curve EP0 ID -> 0..100%
27 Throttle Curve EP1 NORMAL -> 0..100%
28 Throttle Curve EP1 ID -> 0..100%
29 Throttle Curve EP2 NORMAL -> 0..100%
30 Throttle Curve EP2 ID -> 0..100%
31 Throttle Curve EP3 NORMAL -> 0..100%
32 Throttle Curve EP3 ID -> 0..100%
33 Throttle Curve EP4 NORMAL -> 0..100%
34 Throttle Curve EP4 ID -> 0..100%
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
35 Pitch Curve EP0 NORMAL -> 0..100%
36 Pitch Curve EP0 ID -> 0..100%
37 Pitch Curve EP1 NORMAL -> 0..100%
38 Pitch Curve EP1 ID -> 0..100%
39 Pitch Curve EP2 NORMAL -> 0..100%
40 Pitch Curve EP2 ID -> 0..100%
41 Pitch Curve EP3 NORMAL -> 0..100%
42 Pitch Curve EP3 ID -> 0..100%
43 Pitch Curve EP4 NORMAL -> 0..100%
44 Pitch Curve EP4 ID -> 0..100%
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
45 CH1 SubTrim -> -120..+120 (two's complement format > 0x88 - 0x78 )
46 CH2 SubTrim -> -120..+120 (two's complement format > 0x88 - 0x78 )
47 CH3 SubTrim -> -120..+120 (two's complement format > 0x88 - 0x78 )
48 CH4 SubTrim -> -120..+120 (two's complement format > 0x88 - 0x78 )
49 CH5 SubTrim -> -120..+120 (two's complement format > 0x88 - 0x78 )
50 CH6 SubTrim -> -120..+120 (two's complement format > 0x88 - 0x78 )
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
51 Mixer 1 source/destination -> low_nib=dest. high_nib=src. Value : 0..5=ch1..ch6 (6..7=VRA..VRB >source only)
52 Mixer 1 Up Rate -> -100..+100 (two's complement format > 0x9c..0x64)
53 Mixer 1 Down Rate -> -100..+100 (two's complement format > 0x9c..0x64)
54 Mixer 1 switch -> 0=SWA 1=SWB 2=ON 3=OFF
55 Mixer 2 source/destination -> low_nib=dest. high_nib=src. Value : 0..5=ch1..ch6 (6..7=VRA..VRB >source only)
56 Mixer 2 Up Rate -> -100..+100 (two's complement format > 0x9c..0x64)
57 Mixer 2 Down Rate -> -100..+100 (two's complement format > 0x9c..0x64)
58 Mixer 2 switch -> 0=SWA 1=SWB 2=ON 3=OFF
59 Mixer 3 source/destination -> low_nib=dest. high_nib=src. Value : 0..5=ch1..ch6 (6..7=VRA..VRB >source only)
60 Mixer 3 Up Rate -> -100..+100 (two's complement format > 0x9c..0x64)
61 Mixer 3 Down Rate -> -100..+100 (two's complement format > 0x9c..0x64)
62 Mixer 3 switch -> 0=SWA 1=SWB 2=ON 3=OFF
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
63 Switch A function select -> 0=NULL 1=DualRate 2=throttlecutoff 3=NORMAL/ID
64 Switch B function select -> 0=NULL 1=DualRate 2=throttlecutoff 3=NORMAL/ID
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
65 Variable A function select -> 0=NULL 1=pitajdust
66 Variable B function select -> 0=NULL 1=pitajdust
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
67 Checksum High Byte -> sum(byte2..byte66) / 256
68 Checksum Low Byte -> sum(byte2..byte66) mod 256
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
************************************************** ************************************************** ***************/

I already wrote a small application "for airplane only" that works fine.





If you look closely you can see how to map VR(A) and VR(B) to Channel 5 and Channel 6.


Thanks keepitsimple! that is amazing. I do have a few old Ipaq's pocket pc's sitting around and will see if I can do a similar program for planes only using eVB this weekend.
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Old Jan 24, 2009, 12:05 AM
Up in smoke!
BlueFFF's Avatar
Greenville, TX
Joined Jun 2007
627 Posts
I have an old compaq pocket pc, so please share. It would be nice to have a 6 channel radio like this and be able to change setting at the field.
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Old Jan 24, 2009, 03:59 PM
Registered User
earlwb's Avatar
USA, TX, Grapevine
Joined Dec 2008
13,585 Posts
Yes, thanks keepitsimple, I like the info on the Turborex Radio. If I get the time I hope to whip up something myself.
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Old Jan 25, 2009, 12:53 PM
Registered User
keepitsimple's Avatar
The Netherlands, OV, Almelo
Joined Sep 2008
80 Posts
Pda configuration tool

Hello,

I started with trying to capture the ' as I call it' the channeldata.
I used microsoft evb 3.0 (its visual basic for embedded applications) to
create a test userinterface and actually could receive the data on my
very old PDA Compaq Ipaq 3670.
The upmost textbox displays channeldata of channel 1 which was converted to pixels for experimenting with some graphics.



Very first I wrote a Turborix simulator , only to be independent from the transmitter.



The simulator generates channeldata , it can send and receive settings.
With this simulator I now can freely play around in evb.
I found that the PDA is slow on the evb userinterface for displaying channeldata.
Maybe I will only use the PDA for receiving and sending settings.

To be continued....
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Old Jan 25, 2009, 01:46 PM
Marion
USA, NC, Hillsborough
Joined Oct 2003
1,027 Posts
Lead Wings

Many thanks for all those photos !! You may have spured me to try a few things in mine ;-)

Marion
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Last edited by Marion; Jan 25, 2009 at 05:50 PM.
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Old Jan 25, 2009, 04:06 PM
Registered User
keepitsimple's Avatar
The Netherlands, OV, Almelo
Joined Sep 2008
80 Posts
Description of interface pinning and signals


hello,
here is some more interesting stuff for programmer and hobbyist.

Description of interface pinning and signals
/************************************************** *******
Chassis connector pinning as seen at the back of the transmitter
----------------------------------------------------------------


Pin 1 : PMM signal
Pin 2 : +5 Volt
Pin 3 : RX RS232 Serial data input ( TTL levels(0..5Volt) , ATTENTION !!! NOT RS232 levels(+15,-15 .. +3,-3 Volt)
Pin 4 : TX RS232 Serial data output ( TTL levels(0..5Volt) , ATTENTION !!! NOT RS232 levels(+15,-15 .. +3,-3 Volt)
Shield : Ground


RS232 Serial Data specification
------------------------------

115kilobaud , 8 bit , 1 stopbit , noparity , nohandshake

A string of 18 bytes is send every 20mSec by transmitter.
Data burst duration (86.4uSec * 18 Bytes) is approx 1.5552mSec
So we have 18.4mSec to do some great stuff with a microcontroller.

PMM signal specifations
-----------------------

A burst of 7 falling (H->L) edges is send every 20mSec.
Pulse time is time between 2 falling edges
Low part of pulse time is always 0.4mSec.



I inserted this picture because my 'beautiful' ascii pulses are mutilated by probably every available font.

sorry for the bad quality of the picture, i need a better picture server.


/************************************************** *******
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Old Jan 25, 2009, 09:21 PM
have foam, will fly
waqa's Avatar
San Diego
Joined Dec 2008
278 Posts
Hey keepitsimple,

We are working on the same thing

I grabbed my old Ipaq 3650 after flying today and got about as far as you did. Here's a short vid.


Pocket PC Programmer


I used eVB as well. I needed to use a level shifter to get the 5v signal up to standard 12v rs-232 so the Ipaq would read the signal. Did you run into this problem? My electronics knowledge is pretty rusty and I had a level shifter sitting around but I hope there is a better way to get around this.

I used the eVB vertical and horizontal scroll bars for stick positions. I have the inputlen and input thresold set to 100 bytes and that seems to give near instant and very smooth response between the tx and the Ipaq.

I have to say thanks, you definitely provided the catalyst with the protocol and all. I'm going to finish up the programming parts this week as well as move the level shifter into the tx case. I installed a 2200 lipo in the tx as well and will be adding new bettery level monitor for it. Now if I can just figure out a way to mount the Ipaq to the case ...

Oh and since the programming parameters only use 69 bytes, I can use the remaning 20mb of memory in my Ipaq to store over 200,000 models

I love this radio, it will end up being exactly the way I want when I'm done


Edit:
eVB source I have done so far is here: Source

Once I have a ready version I'll post a full build report and installer link. But, you'll need to make your own cable and possibly a level shifter. Maybe keepitsimple will have some better ideas.

This site has given me a great deal, it's nice to be able to give something back.
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Old Jan 26, 2009, 05:26 PM
have foam, will fly
waqa's Avatar
San Diego
Joined Dec 2008
278 Posts
I've been meaning to try out a bluetooth serial device and this project might just be a good fit. I have one new pocketpc (2005 vintage) that has bluetooth, something like this would work:

bluetooth circuit card

Since bluetooth uses 2.4GHz it will need to switched off when the TX is in normal use.
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Old Jan 26, 2009, 08:37 PM
Air, Ground & Water
freechip's Avatar
Canada, ON, Rockland
Joined Aug 2008
24,598 Posts
Had a question about range check\test. I have read that the binding procedure is similar to the spektrum. (bind plug in batt port - power up RX - bind button on TX & power up TX) now with this said I have also read that for range check, some are simply pressing the bind/range button and checking on the ground and air and someone even posted that after 500 meters they still had control. Now if the binding process is similar to Spektrum, wouldn't the range check be similar and that something else has to be done (spektrum= hold trainer switch & toggle dual rate switch 4 times) and range test at 30 yards or 90 feet. Holding down the bind/range button and still having control after 500 meters sound like this would not be the right procedure for range test. I know that at 25$ I could just buy it and test the regular range on the ground, but was just curious if the real instructions were available or if any of the more experience people here had the RANGE THING figured out.
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Old Jan 26, 2009, 09:02 PM
I enjoy the voices
Lead Wings's Avatar
Perth, Australia
Joined Apr 2007
484 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueFFF
Yes it does have a trainer port. Tell me more. Who makes the trainer jack option?

Thanks,
BlueFFF
BlueFFF,

I have no idea what the wiring inside the Polk looks like, but I think I read somewhere that the PPM signal is the same as the signal to the trainer port?

If so, then you could maybe make up a plug that goes from the trainer port to the 2.4 G module.

Anyone out there who knows more about this stuff care to step in?

Suggest you get a plug that fits your trainer port. Stick it in and measure the voltages across the terminals and see what it is putting out. If it is PPM and is 5V then the HK could be used to make an external RF module. If it is more like 10V then the Assan module may be able to be used.
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Old Jan 27, 2009, 09:28 AM
Registered User
Joined Dec 2008
15 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by waqa
Thanks keepitsimple! that is amazing. I do have a few old Ipaq's pocket pc's sitting around and will see if I can do a similar program for planes only using eVB this weekend.
I have bought a Turborix 2.4 G system too, I have had some, partially resolved, quality problems on aileron trim; anyhow, I found the programming software not the best could you upload your version?
Thanks
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Old Jan 27, 2009, 11:03 AM
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geotrouvetout's Avatar
Rouen (FRANCE)
Joined Nov 2003
69 Posts
Hi,

I am workng on this radio too, more on the hardware to use the RF PCB as a module for a programmable radio, on the interface connector (on mine) PIN 1 and PIN 4 there is a solder bridge (everyting works fine !!!), is that's the same for you and is that's why i can't use it with a simulator.
For who is interrested, the signal PPM comes from the pin 26 (P2.0/PCA2/PWM2) of the MCU (12C5408AD) it's the same that goes on the RF PCB thru some resistors.
There is an small IC (like AVR or PIC) on the RF PCB on the radio and the same on the receiver and satellite receiver that i can't find datasheet or what is exactly there is FS8004 PG41674 0825BC? (?= B or 8 for the last digit) is write on it.
The 2.4 GHz tranceivers used are A71C22AQF with a 18 MHz quartz, the one on the radio has a power amplifier at the end of it.
I'll post some photos when i'll get my camera back.

Géo .
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Old Jan 28, 2009, 12:00 AM
have foam, will fly
waqa's Avatar
San Diego
Joined Dec 2008
278 Posts
PocketPC Programmable TX Progress

I did some surgery on tx tonight and added the level shifter needed to bump the 5v signals to 12-15v rs-232 the PocketPc likes to the inside of the tx. There is a 7805 5v regulator on the mother board so powering the shifter was easy. My shifter had a DB9 plug on so I cut it off using my dremel. Shifters without the DB9 can be found here: shifter

If someone wanted to avoid digging into the tx like I did you could use the same board above and a separate power source like this to build a cable with an external level shifter.

I didn't want to chop up the my Ipaq serial cable since I use it for other projects so I added a male DB9 serial port to the front of the tx, not pretty but functional. The original USB port connection is still fully functional.

I suppose the cost of the parts and the cable ($5 off ebay) starts to add up but the idea of having a touch screen programmer, more model memory, etc. is what motivates me. Plus the radio is good, I have flown a number of times with no problems, it range checks fine, and the receivers are still only $14.
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Old Jan 28, 2009, 02:44 AM
Off 2 The Edge of Reality
TeamTEOR's Avatar
Scottsdale, AZ
Joined Sep 2003
7,479 Posts
Does anyone know if I could hack that $30 2.4ghz radio so that I can convert my RC Car radio (Airtronics MX-3) to this system? It does not have a trainer port to make it a simple external box setup. I am not even sure if the MX-3 radio uses the same FM/PPM code, standards are not always standards. I do need to get a 2.4 car radio, but I do not need it so bad that it warrants a $160-$250 purchase. All I need is 3 channels anyway. I have been using my DX7 radio, but it is a pain to be using it for a car.

I am almost inclined to even pull apart my JR-6102 that I installed the 2.4ghz module from a DX6 to achieve the same. I have RX on hand for that at least.
Thanks in advance,
Tom
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Last edited by TeamTEOR; Jan 28, 2009 at 03:49 AM.
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