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Old Nov 27, 2008, 05:37 PM
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Mue-23 motorglider

I'm asking for help. I found this motorglider online today. I think it'd make a fantastic motorglider project. The problem is I can't find too much info on it nor a good 3-view. Here's all I have,... can anyone help me out with more information / drawings / etc? I'm just thinking now, but it could be my next big project. I've looked about as much as I can on line. These are the only useable pics I've found,... and the link below. The color scheme of D-KEBY is perfect!
http://www.akaflieg.vo.tu-muenchen.d...s/Mue23_E.html

Fred
https://home.comcast.net/~guilfoyle72/
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Old Nov 28, 2008, 08:51 AM
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Hey Fred,

I also haven't come across any more info on the Mue than what you have. Im kinda busy today but, will check the German boards later today or tomorrow for you.

Tom
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Old Nov 28, 2008, 01:07 PM
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Fred
I think you would do well to contact Akaflieg Munchen directly as they are in the process of rebuilding your chosen model. (Scroll down a bit)
http://www.akaflieg.vo.tu-muenchen.de/
The rudder appears to be a standard Scheibe part probably robbed from a Bergfalke III.

Regards

Gordon
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Old Nov 28, 2008, 04:01 PM
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Hey Fred,

I wasn't able to find any additional information on the Mü-23 on any german boards or net either. My suggestion is also to contact Akaflieg Munchen as GeeW has suggested.

Most Germans can read and speak a little english so you can contact them through email here: public@akaflieg-muenchen.de or if you like, send me a PM with a short email message to them and I will translate it for you and send it back to you via PM.

Just found some more pics looking for their email address: Mü - 23

Regards,
Tom
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Old Nov 28, 2008, 05:06 PM
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Oh super!, 2 of those 3 pics are new to me. I'll try Akaflieg Munchen Thanks you guys!!

Fred
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Old Nov 29, 2008, 09:19 AM
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...... 3am, and I couldn't sleep. What do I do?,.... fire up AutoCAD LT, import the small 3 view I have, the nice fuselage profile .jpg, and start tracing. I enlarged it to "model" full size. The two fuselage profiles I came up with when overlapped were very very close. I'm happy with the resulting full size basic drawing. If I have to, I'll be satisfied with these dimensions (unless I can come up with other numbers to check them against). I haven't really decided to build it yet. I'm still in the planning and thinking stage. Here's some measurements:

130" ws
56" fuse. length
9.66" wing chord
9.6" scale size prop
2" wheel

It appears to have a flat wing center section with dihedral tips. Spoilers are way back on the wing chord. I'm getting used to looking at the odd shaped cowl. The retract would maybe be a nose gear retract modified.
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Old Nov 30, 2008, 07:42 AM
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Fred,

I love it, and the fact that there is very little info on it makes it all the better project! Nobody else on your block is likely to have one, are they?

Add my vote to the "go for it" pile.

Dave Smith
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Old Nov 30, 2008, 11:27 AM
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Thanks Dave,... yeah, this is looking real likely. I have adequate information for the wing and fin/rudder. The elevator is surprisingly small, at least it looks that way. I might "fudge" that a little,.. or does it look like a full flying stab, assisted by a small elevator,.. like on a Cessna Cardinal? (I'm probably guilty of over-visualization here). The fuselage, thanks to the link Tom provided, is triangular (good) I'm thinking they just haven't added the couple side stingers yet (not visible in the pic). The fuselage appears to bulge out a little from there. This is the area I could use more pictures of. The cockpit "glass" is just wonderful! There's even an upper cabin window through the wing for the rear passenger/pilot. The cowl would be pretty easy to duplicate.

So the only thing I could really use, is a better defined fuselage front half. If nothing else, I suppose I could study the pic I have and do my best to draw it from those. I'm open to suggestions for the airfoil. Most all my other motorgliders, I usually just use a Clark-Y sometimes slightly modified. I've been very happy with it. I don't know what I'll do on this one yet. This is more of a true sailplane, so I'm thinking something different on this one.

It has long wings, 20 meters, so 131" ws = 1/6th scale. It looks like the center section is flat,... I could build that one piece, and plug-in wing tips. That works out to 60" center section and 35" tips. Couple that with the short, 56", fuselage length, and it's >very< easy to transport.

.... and yeah! no one else has one! That's a huge plus. ..... HA ha!, maybe I'd be the only one in the whole world with one . Now wouldn't that be cool!

Here's a couple pics I forgot to add to post #1

Fred Guilfoyle
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Old Nov 30, 2008, 01:37 PM
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Fred
The tailplane appears to be all-flying with anti-servo tabs. These tabs are most likely to also be coupled in to the elevator trim, very easy to duplicate in a model but not necessary unless you are seriously into scale detail
Those wingtips look as if they could really bite you if you get a bit on the slow side.........

Gordon
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Old Dec 02, 2008, 11:23 AM
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A serious scale modeler I'm not A little fudging might be necessary there. I've also looked at a larger model. Thinking out loud,...... for easy transport, I can go up to a 65" fuselage which would give a 147" ws ,... 66" center section, 40" tips, 11" chord at root, 4.7" chord at the tip. That might be a better size. Bigger is better.
---------
Edit-added: Oh, there's no question about it. I'm going for the larger sized model. I just printed out the 65" fuselage to see what it'd look like. I definitely would not want to go any smaller.
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Old Dec 04, 2008, 09:01 AM
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I've been adding structure to the fuselage profile, and more clearly defining the wing and stab. She's looking real good. I'm doing the best I can to duplicate structure according to pics I have. Easy to change later if something is incorrect. Though I did increase wing rib spacing a little. It'll definitely be 148"ws. Anything else and the fuselage looks too small. I guess I'm getting used to large sized airplanes.

Edit:.. HA! I just found many mistakes in the fwd fuselage cockpit area. First of many corrections I'm sure.
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Old Dec 04, 2008, 06:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GeeW
Fred
Those wingtips look as if they could really bite you if you get a bit on the slow side.........
Fred,

Have you given any thought to the airfoil you are going to use? Selecting the correct airfoil (and tip transition) would presumably help with this problem...

I have some memory of a recent thread on this very subject, with some of the E series airfoils designed for just this situation, ... or at least that was what was put forward...

Looks like an interesting project, are you going to make a set of 'plans' available?

Tim
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Old Dec 04, 2008, 07:24 PM
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I haven't chosen an airfoil yet. Looking at the pic in the link on post #4, it looks fairly thick, and not undercambered at all, in fact it looks dead flat to me. Here,... they call the airfoil a "Mü", whatever that looks like. http://www.akaflieg.vo.tu-muenchen.d...s/Mue23_E.html Also this quote:
"It had a slow Mü-profile and thus was capable of taking off at very low speed (less than 50km/h), enabling the Mü23 to operate off extremely short runways". That sounds tame to me. I just stuck a thickened SD8040 airfoil in the drawing temporarily, not going to use it.
Looking at the pics, it appears I need to reduce the depth of the fuselage under the cockpit.
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Old Dec 05, 2008, 12:07 PM
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Thanks to some advise in this thread, a couple emails, and help from Noel Rumers, in Belgium, I will be receiving some drawings &/or pics from Akaflieg Munchen. This project is definately "on". >I'm very excited<. Construction will start about April/May. Other commitments, finishing my B.A.C. Drone, and time to finish construction drawings prevent me from starting it sooner. I will keep everyone posted with my progress until then.
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Old Dec 05, 2008, 12:47 PM
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No Step!
Wow! you surely found a piece of art there! If you need any help, let me know- I do have a bucketful of DXF foils to choose from. PM for email address!
Johnny
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