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Old Nov 28, 2008, 11:14 PM
Lost in the Sky
Richard N's Avatar
Burleson, Texas
Joined Jun 2003
1,932 Posts
Hi Bulent,

Here are a few pictures of a Fairchild 24 I got a ride in last year. A couple of friends wanted some air to air photos and I had the good camera so I got a ride in the Fairchild and shot these from a Piper Cherokee.

Good luck on your project.

Richard
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Old Nov 29, 2008, 08:21 PM
Slow 'n Steady...Grease 'r In
kpriddle's Avatar
Maine
Joined Oct 2008
1,263 Posts
Wow that's awesome! I flown in Cessnas before, but never any other plane. How were the characteristics of the scale flight? I like the color scheme of that Fairchild, but am also thinking about a main color of yellow instead of white. Many of the guillows conversion builders have built them with a white, most infact. I'd like to branch off. Of, course I have also always liked the combination of blue and yellow.

KP
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Old Nov 29, 2008, 10:39 PM
Lost in the Sky
Richard N's Avatar
Burleson, Texas
Joined Jun 2003
1,932 Posts
KP,

My first impression of the Fairchild was that they made people a lot smaller and nimble back then. The passenger door is small and the sill far from the ground. You put your right foot on the step and your left foot has to go up into the foot well first while you twist your way up and into the seat. The cockpit is so narrow you are literally rubbing elbows with the pilot. I then put on my seatbelt because there wouldn't be room enough to do it with the door closed. It was a good thing that it had roll down windows because the door latch wouldn't catch and I had to reach outside and move the door handle around to get it to lock. I rolled up the window and put on my headphones and we taxied and took off after a short run.

Visability from the cabin is very good ahead, down, and to the side which is good for taking pictures of the ground. There is a problem with having to shoot around the struts to keep them out of the pictures. The ride was comfortable and it was an enjoyable flight. It has sufficent power to get off the ground quickly and it just feels a little different when you are taxiing around in a taildragger.

Here is a picture of the Cherokee I shot the Fairchild from. I switched planes after the we landed at the farmer's personal airstrip which was just a closely cut patch in his fields.

Richard
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Old Nov 30, 2008, 09:55 AM
Slow 'n Steady...Grease 'r In
kpriddle's Avatar
Maine
Joined Oct 2008
1,263 Posts
Richard,

That's surprising to me. I have always thought that the Fairchild was a very roomy plane with the ability to hold four passengers. I guess I was wrong. From the pictures, it does look like you were cramped. From the planes you flew there (and just for my curiosity) which plane did you like flying in the best? Which had the best flight characteristics?

KP
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Old Nov 30, 2008, 10:55 AM
Übung macht den Meister..
Deuce's Avatar
United States, OR, Fairview
Joined Jul 2006
3,019 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by bmutlugil
Thanks Michael,

Yes, the plans have taken lots of my spare time to develop - I don't regret it, because I like drafting. I hope parts fit together, the nose construction was a bit difficult to draw in two dimensions.

The following is a finishing scheme I like, probably it will not be so difficult to duplicate - if the paint colors can be matched.

Bulent
Here's another paint scheme that doesn't look too difficult. This is one at the Western Antique Aeroplane and Automobile Museum about an hour from home. If you need some pics of details, it wouldn't be too difficult for me to take some...

James
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Old Nov 30, 2008, 12:56 PM
Lost in the Sky
Richard N's Avatar
Burleson, Texas
Joined Jun 2003
1,932 Posts
Fairchild 24 or Piper Cherokee?

KP,

It is difficult to tell the relative size and feel of something until you actually sit in or put your hands on the real sized thing. I am 6' and 200 lbs. and my friends have told me that in the WW2 era the average weight was in the 120-130 lb. range with a little less height meaning a lot thinner. I was rubbing elbows with the pilot and there was a couple of inches clearance between the outside edge of the seat and the inside of the door. The back seats were smaller and remind me of the back seat of a 70's Fiat 600 a friend had. The back edge of the passenger door is right at the back of the front seat bottom so getting in the back would require sliding the front seat all of the way forward and climbing up and over it and turning around to sit down. Looking at the drawing in post #1 it looks like the pilot's door is bigger all around so his entrance and egress must be easier and this is probably the side passengers and gear should be loaded into.

I liked flying in both the Fairchild and the Cherokee and whether you pick one or the other depends on what you are trying to accomplish. In this case, it was a matter of two pilots wanting some air to air photos and making a spur of the moment late afternoon decision to do it. I haven't turned down an airplane ride yet.

The high wing Fairchild is a fun ride but hard to get into and out of and there is not much room for gear or luggage. It would be a good plane for short flights in nice weather but not for cross country trips. For aerial photography, it has roll down windows so you don't have to shoot through plastic from the side. It has good visibility from the side, down, and forward but a huge blind spot above from the wing. It is great for taking pictures of the ground and to the side but you have to shoot around or through the struts.

The low wing Cherokee is a much more modern airplane with more room and current ergonomics. I believe there is a baggage door behind the cabin on the pilots side and there are reasonably sized seats in back. It would be a much better cross country airplane. You step up on the wing root and put your foot in and sit down into your seat. There are several inches clearance between you and the pilot and the inside of the plane. On the ground you are sitting level instead of looking into the sky. It has good visibility looking from the horizon to 45 degrees up forward and to the side with a blind spot looking down and sideways from the wing. No opening windows so you have to shoot through plastic and it would be a good idea to clean the windows before takeoff. Good for most air to air photography but ground shots are problematic requiring flying in a banked turn.

I got to fly in both aircraft that day and had a great time. If anyone offers me a ride, I go. Last August, as part of a 5800 mile aviation museum road trip, I took a biplane ride at Old Rhinebeck and a sailplane ride at the National Soaring Museum. Very different but both were a lot of fun.

Richard
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Old Dec 01, 2008, 05:25 AM
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bmutlugil's Avatar
Turkey
Joined May 2002
2,178 Posts
Yes,

This build will be slow as well, that's why I had stated that it would have a low probability of getting finished by the deadline.

I could only finish cutting the spars and fuselage strips, and edit the plan to get it finalised before printing. My mother was hospitalized on Thursday, so I could not work much. I don't know when she will be back to her house.

I reverted to cutting the hard balsa strips on a circular saw, after noticing that the stripper/planer method did not produce uniform thickness and square corners. I rough cut the strips using an X-acto knife and steel ruler, then trued them up on 3 sides (because the balsa was 5.3 mm instead of 5 mm) using a circular saw attachment on my unimat lathe - the saw attachment was homemade, years ago.

The density of the hard balsa I used is around 0.22 gr/cubic cm., while the bass strips I had cut previously were around 0.52 gr/cc. I did not convert these to Imperial units; the ratio of weight gain can be seen, however. After seeing the strength of the Tritle Stinson wing using balsa spars, I think these will be strong enough. I can make the wing struts stronger, as well. I have some very hard balsa for these (shipping crate material).

I do not know if I should make the stringers from bass, I had lots of balsa stringer cracking on the Stinson during construction. Cutting bass strips is not so easy, however..

I guess I may have a go at CNC cutting the balsa parts next week. Luckily I do not have to work for a full week.

Edit:

Richard, James,

I have seen your posts after sending this post, thanks for the photos and your help. I will study them in detail..


Bulent
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Old Dec 01, 2008, 07:55 PM
Slow 'n Steady...Grease 'r In
kpriddle's Avatar
Maine
Joined Oct 2008
1,263 Posts
Richard,

I guess that I was a little too curious about the Fairchild you flew in. I just find aviation very interesting and am always very anxious to know more. At my stage in building RC especially, I am all ears and, of course, questions. Now that I think about it, you know a lot more than I can remember about my flight . It's almost as if you are reading off of a journal you wrote directly after landing. Anyway, thank you answering what you could.

Deuce,

I would also very much appreciate pictures. I am still looking at schemes, but I am especially looking at this one:
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Old Dec 01, 2008, 09:47 PM
Übung macht den Meister..
Deuce's Avatar
United States, OR, Fairview
Joined Jul 2006
3,019 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by kpriddle
Deuce,

I would also very much appreciate pictures. I am still looking at schemes, but I am especially looking at this one:
Just let me know when you might need some detail shots, and I'll try to get them for you. My dad is a volunteer at the museum, doing restoration work, and gets out there more often than I do. If I can't get to the museum, He can probably get the shots you'd need.

James
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Old Dec 01, 2008, 11:13 PM
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P_J_Glor's Avatar
Valencia, CA
Joined Oct 2002
3,678 Posts
How about blue and yellow,like this? These pictures and several others are at www.airliners.net Just go to the photo search engine, select "Fairchild, other" and type in "24" under keywords. You will get quite a few other aircraft types, too, but there are several of the radial engine F-24's at this site.

Pete G.
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Old Dec 02, 2008, 07:09 AM
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bmutlugil's Avatar
Turkey
Joined May 2002
2,178 Posts
Thanks for the photos, guys,

However I could prefer Ranger engined ones It must be a dream flying in an F24. None here, as much as I know.

James, I am reluctant to go to a khaki finish, but in the future I may ask for help on some detail photos - thanks for the offer. Of course if the version of the plane matches mine - I am not exactly sure of the version of the 3-view I started with.

I decided to use bass for stringers, started cutting. 27 stringers in all, top and bottom 1.5x3.5 mm, sides 1.5x4 mm. I reduced the depth of stringers after calculating the final weight. I was intending to use 1.5x4.5 mm cross section; but dropping from there to 1.5x3.5 saves around 10 grams . A few nights of bass cutting is in order.

I was lucky to see that K&S tubing had become available at a local shop. Today I bought tubing for wing attachments and tail control surface hinges. I will make the elevator and rudder removable by using a long carbon rod as a pin - that rides in an aluminum tubing at the hinge line - see attachment. That should make covering and painting easy. Elevators will get fastened by M2 screws on a steel joiner which holds the control horn also (internal horn). The hinge part to be attached on the unmovable surfaces can be seen below the rudder (bottom line missing, unfortunately) - it will be machined from FR4.

Bulent
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Old Dec 02, 2008, 07:25 AM
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bmutlugil's Avatar
Turkey
Joined May 2002
2,178 Posts
Pete,

Thanks, I missed your post. I guess I have already downloaded all the photos in airliners.net , at least the ones I like.. I have more than 131MB of F24R photos.

Blue/yellow looks nice also. I liked the hue of the yellow in the yellow/white one I posted earlier. There is also a yellow/dark green version that looks good - green trim on yellow base.

Bulent
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Old Dec 02, 2008, 08:56 AM
Übung macht den Meister..
Deuce's Avatar
United States, OR, Fairview
Joined Jul 2006
3,019 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by bmutlugil
James, I am reluctant to go to a khaki finish, ...

Bulent
Hehe! I was actually making a comment in reference to post #3, where you said "... probably it will not be so difficult to duplicate." It seemed the UC-61 paint scheme was pretty easy! Perhaps I should have quoted that post originally!

James
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Old Dec 02, 2008, 10:46 AM
Lost in the Sky
Richard N's Avatar
Burleson, Texas
Joined Jun 2003
1,932 Posts
Here are a few more taxiing and aerial shots of the Fairchild from the Cherokee.

Richard
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