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Old Nov 17, 2008, 12:02 PM
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Pensacola, FL, USA
Joined Dec 2000
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Just read on the HL forum about a guy who built a hi-start for his HL using a 100' rubber and 1000' of line.

I told him one of our guys built one like that.

At noon he was still stretching and was never seen again!

We suspect the coyotes got him.

We have them in lower AL now, you know!
John255
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Old Nov 17, 2008, 01:59 PM
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Norm Furutani's Avatar
United States, CA, Gardena
Joined Oct 2004
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Our group is part of the Soaring Union of Los Angeles (SULA). We have winches and retrievers available but they are way too heavy duty for the park flyers. We have been using what started as a Dynaflite Standard Hi-Start. The rubber was cut to 75' to suit our field. When it wore out, the rubber was replaced with 75' of Theraband green. Lately, the TheraBand has been giving us problems so we might go back to the DynaFlite

The origional chute needs to be sewn to the shrouds, otherwise it bunches up and acts as an ugly streamer.

We tell our wives that all that hi start shagging is our form of exercise and it justifies us being out two mornings of the week. It is better than hanging out at the donut shop!

As for planes, Ed Depue's Tossette (Model Builder plan) has been very popular. This was among the first generation of RC HLG's from the 70-80's. Larry Jolly's Flinger and the Midway Models Gnome are also good ones from that time. A number of guys are designing their own and this has added to the variety.

I suggest you stay with the longest hi start you can. It allows the beginners a couple mistakes before they're on the ground. A zip(short launch) is OK for the experienced guys and is very challenging but discouraging for the novice.

Because we're on a city park, we get a number of walk-ons. We encourage them to start with the Multiplex Easy Star (powered pusher). We got the local hobby shop to stock them. It gives them more air time and is very crash resistant (we've tried!) The club has a buddybox available and a 50' pole to dig the plane out of the trees.

The park glider group has been the fastest growing segment of the club. At the park, interest in the electrics has dropped off quite a bit.

If you are in the Torrance (LA suburb) area on a Tues or Thurs, drop by!

- Norm
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Old Nov 17, 2008, 03:10 PM
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Norm thanks for the reply. Here are some places to look for if you are new to this and some have said space is a problem.
1. City parks, there are 123 here in Tulsa
2. School yards
3. Baseball fields
4. Football fields
5. Track fields
6. Athletic fields
7. Soccer fields
8. Rugby fields
9. College campus grassed areas (most don't mind)
10. Golf course utility grounds. Some of there are really large and they are glad to have you use them.
11. Large corporate office lots. These can be huge and cover several acres and are usually will mowed.
12. Industrial parks usually have large areas of grassed lots you can use.
13. Some of the churches have enormous yards and will allow you to use them.
14. Trade schools
15. Hospitals sometimes had large grassed areas and love to have you fly there.
16. Vacant lots
17. Manufacturing plants, the ones like GM and Ford have places you could fly full size aircraft off there.
18. Business parks are excellent
19. Flood control. Here there are miles of huge bowls in the ground that are used to catch over run flood water and there are all grassed and mowed. Wide open spaces you can use all you want.
20. Then there is the all time classic Sod Farm, some are inside the city limits.
I am sure there are many, many more and you can always add to the list.
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Old Nov 17, 2008, 03:58 PM
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Pensacola, FL, USA
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Norm,
Enjoyed reading your report.
You guys are fortunate indeed to have so many public parks big enough. Scott with 123 is amazing.
I know of only one here in Pensacola big enough for a full-size hi-start.
However, the Navy here is generous with permission to use their aux. fields on week ends.
Our small group is happy to have a field in Lillian AL that we keep a 400' circle mowed.
Sounds like you are having a great time. We are too and we do try to keep it light.
As one member says, "Cancer is serious, flying is not!"
Would love to find an excuse to get out to LA and join you one day.
I have a mini hi-start 40" Swyft that knocks down into a suitcase real easy.
Regards,
John255
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Old Nov 17, 2008, 08:39 PM
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United States, AL, Mobile
Joined Dec 2007
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Quote:
It is better than hanging out at the donut shop!

Come on now Norm!!! Krispy Kreme and Duncan both have deals on a dozen or more to go! Show up at the field with donuts and you'll win friends and influence people!! Make a deal with some buddy who has a large coffee thing and you've got a Donut Fly-in Breakfast tradition started!!!



Oooh, I had a brainfart, er flash... Why not aerotow a small HLG using something like this? http://www.hobby-lobby.com/micro-telemaster.htm


Could be fun or it would at least provide more ammo for the "Crash excuses" thread found elsewhere in the forums!
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Old Nov 17, 2008, 10:55 PM
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United States, MA, Waltham
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It occurs to me that in a really tight space, if you didn't want to have a motor in your glider, you could make a light winch. I've noticed that winches give higher launches in the same amount of space, perhaps because you can pull reasonably hard all the way up. Not sure what the best setup would be.
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Old Nov 18, 2008, 08:15 AM
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Pensacola, FL, USA
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Our experiences with the winch here have been mixed. When working they work great, but when it goes wrong you can spend a lot of time especially untangling the retrieve. There would also be a greater safety risk for a public park.

For the same space you get about the same height except with a winch you can put out a lot more line. And, most guys zoom off the winch and gain some height. However, you can learn to do that also on hi-start especially is you've got a breeze.
John255
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Old Nov 18, 2008, 08:25 AM
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USA, KY, Burlington
Joined Sep 2001
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This year at Dayton we had a 60" F3J type contest that worked great. We used 25 feet of rubber and 100 feet of line. Had a mix of all types of H/L's. Old wooden ones, Monarchs, and newer DLG's. MoM 5 minute max with one relaunch. We had a great time! We are now planing to make this a yearly contest.

Ed
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Old Nov 18, 2008, 09:10 PM
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I used to know a guy back in Nashville that built a winch for HLG's out of the starter crank for powered planes. You know what I'm talking about? The thing that spins the prop so you don't lose a finger. Worked well.

A buddy and I actually had a speed 600 motor that we rigged up as a micro winch. We never got to try it out though. I think we ended up putting the motor in a Goldberg Electra.
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Old Nov 18, 2008, 11:20 PM
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United States, CA, Gardena
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hossfly72
Come on now Norm!!! Krispy Kreme and Duncan both have deals on a dozen or more to go! Show up at the field with donuts and you'll win friends and influence people!! Make a deal with some buddy who has a large coffee thing and you've got a Donut Fly-in Breakfast tradition started!!!

---snip---!
Hossfly - you have the proper attitude to join our group! The FF club has donuts on Weds. If it's your turn to bring donuts, you better not forget or else you need to beg and plead to be allowed back in the club!

Norm
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Old Nov 18, 2008, 11:54 PM
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United States, MA, Waltham
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There's no question that winches can be a PIA. However, if there isn't all that much wind, then a winch will definitely get you higher. At least that's been my experience. A lot higher, even without the zoom. You can pull hard all the way up, unlike with a high start without wind.

A high start zoom is nothing like a winch zoom, if you've got a strong glider.

As far as untangling, it helps to have some experience, but snafus are possible. I've noticed that other people have a lot more trouble with my winch than I do. Retrievers really increase the chance for screw ups, and, IMHO, reduce the motivation to catch thermals. But they can be made to work ok too. If you're having troubles, don't try to cut any corners.

I don't think the safety risk has to be too much if the winch is sized for a 1.5 meter glider.

When I'm alone and I think the lift will be good, I tend to use a high start. But lately I've been using the winch more. I just wish the battery weren't so !@$#%# heavy. It hurts sometimes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by John255
Our experiences with the winch here have been mixed. When working they work great, but when it goes wrong you can spend a lot of time especially untangling the retrieve. There would also be a greater safety risk for a public park.

For the same space you get about the same height except with a winch you can put out a lot more line. And, most guys zoom off the winch and gain some height. However, you can learn to do that also on hi-start especially is you've got a breeze.
John255
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Old Nov 19, 2008, 08:07 AM
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United States, IN, Fort Wayne
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed Franz
This year at Dayton we had a 60" F3J type contest that worked great. We used 25 feet of rubber and 100 feet of line. Had a mix of all types of H/L's. Old wooden ones, Monarchs, and newer DLG's. MoM 5 minute max with one relaunch. We had a great time! We are now planing to make this a yearly contest.

Ed
www.commonsenserc.com

I hope so, I missed the first one.

Ray
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Old Nov 19, 2008, 08:26 AM
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Pensacola, FL, USA
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Lincoln,
Agree you would do better in dead air with winch if the plane can take the center wing pressure. The HL planes I've built are not very well fortified in that area. But the safety issue I was thinking about was not for the plane.

I've never flown in a public park, but I imagine it to be randomly and maybe unpredictably populated with people. The winch has one line going up on the plane and another section running on the ground. The running ground line can cut through a shoe, a foot or any part of a body that falls on it.

Possibly even greater risk is the retrieve line that's lighter, and less visible that drifts downwind. I've seen scary damage to the hood of a car when the line was accidently activated before being cleared.

I doubt that a mini hi-start would cause much harm under any conditions.
Regards,
John255
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Old Nov 19, 2008, 10:41 AM
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The whole idea of this event is to keep it as simple as possible. Simple planes and simple launching methods. One of the events that seems to be popular and easy to do plus really fair competition is to have 2 or more people launch at the same time. Through this winter I will do some trial runs on several types and lengths of tubing and string to see if there is a happy medium and something really cheap to put together. What got me started in this is the fact I enjoy that size glider but after 2 heart attacks and now with a damaged heart I do not feel like walking through vast areas to retrieve a line. With a short zip start I can handle that and there seems to be an interest in others that have limited abilities and this will be a good event for them.
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Old Nov 19, 2008, 04:57 PM
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Valparaiso, IN
Joined Apr 2005
736 Posts
A variation on the 1.5 Zip Start Event

Some clubs are using zip starts and the popular foam EZ Glider in an F3J-like format. Hey, wouldn't the zip start events be great during NATS evenings?
Jim Deck
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