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Old Nov 16, 2008, 11:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John255
Scott,
This really sounds great! Count me in!
So your hope is if there is enough response RCG we may get a dedicated category for 1.5M and smaller.

May be good to start talking about the launch because that determines needed space. You are lucky to have so many large parks.

The term Zip-Start gets used for Hi-Start but they are different. One supplier of The Zip is Aerofoam. It is 15' rubber, and 25' line and can be used in 100' space.
http://www.aerofoam.com/hosemonster.html

I don't have any experience with these, but they sound to me like a lot of pull, lot of speed for jets, etc, and some risk. As you know the smaller HL ships can are hard too hold with a lot of pull. In a public park you also don't need the pin becoming a missile.

Sky Bench makes a good mini hi-start, but I don't recommend it any longer because of price and his high shipping cost.

Probably best may be the Dynaflight Up-Start which is 25' 1/8" ID rubber, 100' line with chute for $28 at Tower.
http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXE637&P=V

This one needs min 300' launch space.
I'm searching for a source for mandrel formed 3/16" thick wall UV protected tubing.

There's not much to building them. Maybe somebody's wife might start a cottage industry for the chutes. I have a small one that works good. Not a wife, but a chute.

I guess that's enough for now.
Regards,
John255
We will have to get a cross section on up start, zip start or mini high start rules. I was going to leave it up to the local group but you brought up a good point. If there is to be a set of rules then these will have to be addressed. One thing to consider is different classes of launching methods. I had forgotten the original Zip Start. I am going to get a 2X4 built and use several types to see what is the best for here and the most popular. Some of you guys that use the different ones need to let us know what results you are getting. One thing about the small launch rubber is that if it is not completely UV protected no big deal as it is cheap to replace. Also Trumark Slingshot now offers a cheap lube that you put on laytex tubing to protect it for UV damage. Thanks for the links and the two issues we need to get down first is the launch rules and plane rules.
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Old Nov 16, 2008, 12:59 PM
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Pensacola, FL, USA
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Scott,
I've tried three times to respond to your last and gave up because of variables.
I guess I don't understand clearly where you see this effort going.
Sounds like you are thinking of local first then national competitions.
May be good to say what your vision is in simplest getting started form for local level and RCG's.
I take some heat on HL threads just admitting I use a mini hi-start.
Cheers,
John255
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Old Nov 16, 2008, 02:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John255
Scott,
I've tried three times to respond to your last and gave up because of variables.
I guess I don't understand clearly where you see this effort going.
Sounds like you are thinking of local first then national competitions.
May be good to say what your vision is in simplest getting started form for local level and RCG's.
I take some heat on HL threads just admitting I use a mini hi-start.
Cheers,
John255
I have no vision. What I see is a need for people who love gliders and especially the 1.5M size sailplanes followed by the lack of large flying fields and want to fly close to home. The people this will attract are those that have no desire to compete in the high tec world of HLG. To fly sailplanes here that are in the 2M class and larger you will have to drive quite a few miles, have at least a 1,000 foot field if you use a high start. (Not everyone is into electric). Like all things in life it gets to where the events get clear out of hand and loose the fun factor. This is a return to a simple and strict set of rules so that local groups can have cheap sailplane fun and get the young people interested because without the young people our future as a hobby is gone. If a strong local group gets going then have a few people contact the scouts and start a group off in FF catapult gliders and then graduate them into RC. If at some time down the road there is a large enough group then come up with a National Competition. Look at what Dave Thornberg started with a magazine article. The whole goal is to get this one type of flying into it's own forum section so that people like yourself can come into and be welcome and not have someone look down there nose at your type of flying. I want to start putting together a list of flying sites so people can get an idea of all the places that exist close to home that sometimes are overlooked.
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Old Nov 16, 2008, 02:55 PM
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It's a bit of a drive, but we fly 1.5 M class a Man on Man once a month here in Dallas. Usually get 8 to 12 pilots. We do a simotaneous launch, 4 per heat, last man up wins. Stay up for 5 everyone gets points. No landing points.

It's a real hit with the more senior guys, easy launch, pretty easy to keep the models in site. Really a lot of fun.
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Old Nov 16, 2008, 03:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hostage-46
It's a bit of a drive, but we fly 1.5 M class a Man on Man once a month here in Dallas. Usually get 8 to 12 pilots. We do a simotaneous launch, 4 per heat, last man up wins. Stay up for 5 everyone gets points. No landing points.

It's a real hit with the more senior guys, easy launch, pretty easy to keep the models in site. Really a lot of fun.
Please give us more details on your launch equipment. Tubing size, string length, and do you use a chute or streamer? What airplanes are most common?
I think what is going to be a supprise is how much of this is going on and no one knows about it.
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Old Nov 16, 2008, 03:58 PM
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OK Scott,
Very good reply. Your are probably right about more activity than we thought going on around the country.

I've tried various types of rubber and line lengths, and just about anything will work after a fashion, but the thing can be optimized for 1.5M ships.

I'm using 25' of 3/16" OD black mandrel dipped latex with wall thickness of 1/16", and I'd love to find more because it's nearly 10 years old and still working, but showing wear.

This gives about 4~5 lbs. of pull when stretched 300%. I've read the ideal pull should be about 5X the weight of the model.

The line is the lightest bradded fishing line I could find 125'. Best line length somewhere around 4~5 times rubber length.

I use a chute 12" dia. with 6 shroud lines 18" long. Had to cut holes in top to get the right drop and keep it from stalling. The chute really reduces walking. However, the wind will shift within 15 min. after you set up.

Here is a good source of tech data by the Charles River guys.
http://www.charlesriverrc.org/articl...artphysics.htm

More later on later on easy hooks for DHL planes.
Cheers,
John255
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Last edited by John255; Nov 16, 2008 at 04:49 PM.
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Old Nov 16, 2008, 05:54 PM
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Pensacola, FL, USA
Joined Dec 2000
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Another idea we've been kicking around is an electric scooter to retrieve and stretch the line for next launch.

This one is $185, and weighs 58lbs.

Seem like it would be a blast to use.
Has anyone tried such a rig?
John255
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Old Nov 16, 2008, 06:44 PM
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USA, FL, Pensacola
Joined Sep 2004
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Now John, I think could get some sweet young things to come out, do the retrieval and then buy em lunch with your $185.00.
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Old Nov 16, 2008, 07:21 PM
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Will M's Avatar
Highland Village, TX
Joined Feb 2005
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SLNT MOM 1.5M Contests

Quote:
Originally Posted by scottw10
Please give us more details on your launch equipment. Tubing size, string length, and do you use a chute or streamer? What airplanes are most common?
I think what is going to be a supprise is how much of this is going on and no one knows about it.
To add to Dan's comments, the upstarts are 25 feet of 1/8 inch Dynaflight rubber (Tower Stock No. DYFP8703). The line is 30 pound test monofiliment of sufficient length to make the total unstretched upstart equal to 50 meters (so, the line is 127.4 feet). A small chute is used. The upstart is stretched to generally provide 4 pounds of pull (if it's very calm, we sometimes use 5 pounds of pull).

We fly six rounds of 4 pilots per heat, launched simultaneously, with a goal of a 5 minute flight. Each heat is open, so you can choose when to fly, but all must fly 6 rounds. While one heat is in the air, the next group of pilots retrieve the upstarts to be ready to launch when the last pilot is down and the timer says to launch. Scoring is as follows: if one or more pilots get the full five minute flight, they all get 4 points each. Otherwise, the first person down gets 1 point, the second 2 points, third 3 points and fourth 4 points. The max per contest is 24 points. Ties are resolved by reviewing each heat to determine who bested whom during each heat. If that doesn't resolve the tie, a fly-off, coin toss or fist-fight determines the tie breaker.

Any 1.5 meter or smaller glider may be used. We see home-mades, Blasters, Chrysalis, Omegas, Monarchs, Taboos, Sidewinders, etc. All fitted with a small tow hook for launching.

Lots of fun!!!!!!!!!!
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Old Nov 16, 2008, 07:26 PM
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USA, ME, Plymouth
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Wow, you guys are old!
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Old Nov 16, 2008, 07:28 PM
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People are saying that ffclg's don't need much space. If you get them working right, that's really not true, unless you're flying at 6am. If it's the middle of the day, there's any wind at all, and you catch a little lift, it's going to need a LOT of space. I've lost them from fields that had 1000 feet of space downwind of me. And I think in some cases a mile or two might have been required. (Ok, I think with a DT and not much wind, maybe 1000 feet would be enough.) A 5mph breeze will carry your glider 880 feet in two minutes.

Size of field required is really more a function of wing loading than glider size. A 100 inch Olympic 2, built light, will turn tighter than most 2 meters. It's a lot easier to see, too.
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Old Nov 16, 2008, 07:39 PM
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United States, IN, Fort Wayne
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Ray's Mini Hi Start contest at 1995 AMA LSF Nats

Great way to have a competition with small sailplanes and in small places if necessary.

All that attended this event enjoyed it, I had a weekly summer schedule of Man on Man for 1.5 from Sky Bench Mini Hi starts for several years.

Ray
http://www.skybench.com
Home of Wood Crafters
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Old Nov 16, 2008, 07:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lincoln
People are saying that ffclg's don't need much space. If you get them working right, that's really not true, unless you're flying at 6am. If it's the middle of the day, there's any wind at all, and you catch a little lift, it's going to need a LOT of space. I've lost them from fields that had 1000 feet of space downwind of me. And I think in some cases a mile or two might have been required. (Ok, I think with a DT and not much wind, maybe 1000 feet would be enough.) A 5mph breeze will carry your glider 880 feet in two minutes.

Size of field required is really more a function of wing loading than glider size. A 100 inch Olympic 2, built light, will turn tighter than most 2 meters. It's a lot easier to see, too.
You are right on for an experienced builder. I was referring to a boy scout and his first build and using a really small catapult. I have watched the HLG in FF go out of sight.
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Old Nov 16, 2008, 08:28 PM
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Lincoln,
My first TLG was a "Top Kick" designed by an AF M'Sgt.
With today's electronics many TLG's would make excellent, easy build mini hi-start gliders. Never thought of that until I read your post. That's the beauty of this forum.
Regards,
John255
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Old Nov 16, 2008, 10:11 PM
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Hello Ray. Boy can we use your ideas. You may have been at this far longer than myself. Glad to see you in here. Any help you can give will be appreciated. Can you tell us what the events were that were at the LSF contest?
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