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Old Mar 29, 2009, 09:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jp.electrik
Kline Fogleman, Is an airfoil developed by a couple of cats from Germany,
(I think) It is a stepped airfoil. There are several variations; this will enable you to do a search. jp
Just to set the record straight... Kline and Fogleman are from the US. I actually created the step concept over forty years ago with a paper airplane that I designed which completely resisted stalling. Fogleman, now deceased, saw the possibilities of applying the step to an actual airfoil. We got two patents on the step concept, both have long expired. One of the biggest kicks I got was when I challenged the Wright Brothers distance record of 122 down at Kill Devil Hills, NC, which is where they actually flew from, not Kitty Hawk. My longest flight was 401 feet, four inches. A crew from Good Morning America came along to film it. This took place in 1985. The reason for this event was to publicize my book called The Ultimate Paper Airplane. The book told the story of how it came about. All this from a piece of paper that I just folded up. Today, RC people from all over the world are now using the KFm airfoils with great success. It has made me a very happy man. And, all of this came about because of Tony65X55, who was willing to see what the KF airfoil had to offer.

Dick Kline
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Old Mar 29, 2009, 11:05 AM
'FPV'er...not a "LOS'er
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Las Vegas, NV
Joined Sep 2003
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Cool...the real guy chimes in. Gotta like that...good quick history...and all from playing with paper airplanes!!!
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Old Mar 29, 2009, 10:47 PM
'FPV'er...not a "LOS'er
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Las Vegas, NV
Joined Sep 2003
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Where can Dollar Tree foam board be found? I went to a local craft shop and picked up a couple sheets of Elmer's foam board @ $3 a sheet. I peeled my first sheet, but what a mess. It sounds like the Dollar Tree stuff is easier to peel and cheaper to boot. Now just where to find it...Wal-mart, K-mart, etc?

edit: Oh, I think I just figured it out. Dollar Tree foam is from the Dollar Tree stores, not a product name of 'Dollar Tree'. There's several stores in my area. I'll use the Elmer's foam for now, but will try the cheaper stuff next time.
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Old Mar 30, 2009, 09:55 AM
Flying high
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Seattle, Wa
Joined Dec 2002
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I flew my 58" fff eagle for the first time this weekend. It flies good, but there is one issue and I thought I would see if anyone has any ideas.

I gave it the optional ailerons which are large and I have plenty of deflection. But when the eagle was flying it wouldn't turn right with the ailerons. I could clearly see the aileron moving, but at full deflection it would barely start to bank right. It seemed to track straight, and if I used the v-tail it would turn right. I was thinking that maybe it's that I didn't' give it enough right thrust, but it isn't pulling left. Any ideas?
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Old Mar 30, 2009, 10:32 AM
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USA, IN, Nineveh
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Cool Dickeroo,
Do you have a picture of the paper plane that flew 401 feet, and how did you launch it?

Tim
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Old Mar 30, 2009, 10:36 AM
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USA, IN, Nineveh
Joined Apr 2002
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billwhit
I flew my 58" fff eagle for the first time this weekend. It flies good, but there is one issue and I thought I would see if anyone has any ideas.

I gave it the optional ailerons which are large and I have plenty of deflection. But when the eagle was flying it wouldn't turn right with the ailerons. I could clearly see the aileron moving, but at full deflection it would barely start to bank right. It seemed to track straight, and if I used the v-tail it would turn right. I was thinking that maybe it's that I didn't' give it enough right thrust, but it isn't pulling left. Any ideas?
Hey billwhit,
this may be a silly question but you didn't by any chance use mixing that could give opposite v-tail movement to the aileron did you?
So when you give it left ail. it also gives right v-tail.

Tim
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Old Mar 30, 2009, 10:43 AM
Flying high
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Seattle, Wa
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tdearth
Hey billwhit,
this may be a silly question but you didn't by any chance use mixing that could give opposite v-tail movement to the aileron did you?
So when you give it left ail. it also gives right v-tail.

Tim
Hmmm, I don't think so. I'll check to be sure...
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Old Mar 30, 2009, 10:50 AM
Out the Window
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United States, FL, Alachua
Joined Jul 2004
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billwhit
I flew my 58" fff eagle for the first time this weekend. It flies good, but there is one issue and I thought I would see if anyone has any ideas.

I gave it the optional ailerons which are large and I have plenty of deflection. But when the eagle was flying it wouldn't turn right with the ailerons. I could clearly see the aileron moving, but at full deflection it would barely start to bank right. It seemed to track straight, and if I used the v-tail it would turn right. I was thinking that maybe it's that I didn't' give it enough right thrust, but it isn't pulling left. Any ideas?
I had the same problem with my 42" FFF Eagle. It is set up for RET, but it also will turn left well, but not right. I does seem to fly straight...but does not want to turn right. It also want to nose up when over 1/2 throttle. Yesterday I reset the motor. I gave it about 4.75 degrees downthrust and some more right thrust. If I can get away today I will give it another try!

Ray
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Old Mar 30, 2009, 01:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tdearth
Cool Dickeroo,
Do you have a picture of the paper plane that flew 401 feet, and how did you launch it?

Tim
Tim... here's a picture taken after my trip to Kill Devil Hills. The shot was on the cover of the Ford Times. I don't look like that any more. Aging has taken care of things. When I launched my planes at Kill Devil Hills, I threw directly into the teeth of a strong wind coming in off Cape Hatteras. I held the planes at a slight angle so that when I threw them like an overhand fastball into the wind, they would rise up higher than a telephone pole and then level off and go with the wind. That was how I was able to get the distance I was after. The wings were bound tightly together so they could withstand a very hard throw. The model I used was The Condor, which has the step on top and was made out of a heavy paper called chrome-coat.

Dick
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Old Mar 30, 2009, 01:51 PM
Lee
PERFECT LANDING !!!
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USA, UT, Orem
Joined Jul 2004
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Quote:
Originally Posted by High Flyin'
I had the same problem with my 42" FFF Eagle. It is set up for RET, but it also will turn left well, but not right. I does seem to fly straight...but does not want to turn right. It also want to nose up when over 1/2 throttle. Yesterday I reset the motor. I gave it about 4.75 degrees downthrust and some more right thrust. If I can get away today I will give it another try!

Ray
If you have your wing tip feathers up they will have an incredible amount of dampening on the ailerons.

Ask me how I know. Notice the Peregrine is flat.

Lee
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Old Mar 30, 2009, 02:10 PM
The Real J
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Ogden, Utah
Joined Nov 2004
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Seems really nose heavy or tail heavy. If it takes a lot of "up" elevator to fly straight, it is nose heavy and will pitch up with power. If it takes a lot of down elevator to fly straight, then it is tail heavy and will pitch down with power. I might have said that backwards, but if your CG is right on, then when your elevator is straight, it should glide and power straight without any (maybe minor)adjustment.
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Old Mar 30, 2009, 02:23 PM
Flying high
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Seattle, Wa
Joined Dec 2002
2,263 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee
If you have your wing tip feathers up they will have an incredible amount of dampening on the ailerons.

Ask me how I know. Notice the Peregrine is flat.

Lee
I wish I had known that. Getting the tip feather up just right is a little tricky too.

Well, I wont be adding them to my 42" eagle if that's the case.

I guess can try mixing in v-tail so that it turns. I'd rather not remake the wings, but maybe that's what i'll have to do...
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Old Mar 30, 2009, 04:21 PM
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Exmouth, Devon, UK
Joined Dec 2004
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That is strange, my 48" eagle (post 549) has ailerons and elevator only and I have no turning issues. I have some right thrust on the motor but not a huge amount. My main problem was ballooning under power but I have cured that by mixing some down elevator with throttle. Rolls are still not pretty (probably due to the wing-tips), but otherwise she now flies better than some of my conventional planes and is fast becoming one of my favourites.
Could it be a bit of adverse yaw - have you tried some differential on the ailerons?
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Old Mar 30, 2009, 04:47 PM
Flying high
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Seattle, Wa
Joined Dec 2002
2,263 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by brantley
That is strange, my 48" eagle (post 549) has ailerons and elevator only and I have no turning issues. I have some right thrust on the motor but not a huge amount. My main problem was ballooning under power but I have cured that by mixing some down elevator with throttle. Rolls are still not pretty (probably due to the wing-tips), but otherwise she now flies better than some of my conventional planes and is fast becoming one of my favourites.
Could it be a bit of adverse yaw - have you tried some differential on the ailerons?
I started without differential, but then I tried adding some and it didn't help. The aileron surface is so big and I have plenty of deflection so I didn't understand how it could have so little effect. If I held the stick all the way right it would slowly start to bank. I tried a flew flights but had to give up, there was a bit of wind and I didn't want to have a bad crash over it.

Mixing down elevator with throttle is a good idea. I have had the "ballooning" problem on my smaller eagle (v-tail only).
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Old Mar 30, 2009, 05:01 PM
PunchDrunk ex-Pug try'n fly'n
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United States, MN, Minneapolis
Joined Jan 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dickeroo
Just to set the record straight... Kline and Fogleman are from the US. I actually created the step concept over forty years ago ..... Fogleman, now deceased, saw the possibilities.....

Dick Kline
WOW, This is why I love to be wrong. "Who would'a thunk it."
What an honor to get a response from the "Man" himself.
My bad, although I did suspect....(I Think) . Only on RCG!
jp
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