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Old Nov 26, 2008, 09:05 PM
Out the Window
High Flyin''s Avatar
United States, FL, Alachua
Joined Jul 2004
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Quote:
Originally Posted by warhead_71
Here it is at 75% ~42" wingspan
Thanks Warhead!

Ray
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Old Nov 27, 2008, 02:21 AM
Lee
PERFECT LANDING !!!
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USA, UT, Orem
Joined Jul 2004
9,053 Posts
We are working on a new tail for the Peregrine. The consulting artist that helped set up the plane was not happy with the X tail as it was. I think it kinda nausiated him.

We built a inverted V-tail and stood a matching rudder on it instead of a flat tail with a rudder above and below. it looks much better especially if you are looking up at the plane. We took it out to test fly and it flew much the same but does look enough better the artist was able to eat again. It kind of looks like an F4 Phantom Jet tail. http://www.f4phantoms.co.uk/uk.html i'll get som pictures posted.

We started cutting the rudder down trying to get to the inverted V-tail with no rudder at all. It was interesting to see how the decreasing rudder started to allow the plane to yaw. I finally cut the entire rudder off leaving the inverted V-Tail and the plane lost all control and would slide sideways. I broke the wing in 4 pieces on the no rudder test flight. Thank heavens for EPP I glued it back together and glued a meaty rudder back on and touched up the paint and she is good as new.

Today I took the plane out and flew at least 8 batteries through it. My prop saver came off and when I tightened it I broke the shaft to the motor. I didn't have another BW1300 with me but I did have a BP21 in the flight box. (hehehehehehe) Are falcons suposed to do vertical flight?

PS I like the Eagle plans too. I will link them in post #3

Lee
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Last edited by Lee; Nov 27, 2008 at 02:47 AM.
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Old Nov 27, 2008, 12:59 PM
Lee
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USA, UT, Orem
Joined Jul 2004
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Here are some photos of the new tail design. These test planes are frequently redesigned over and over after they are built to get things right. I have done at least 20 modifications to this plane and several repairs as the plane has been designed. I'll post some pictures of the next generation of Peregrine to show you what is changing.

What do you think? Which tail do you like best?
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Last edited by Lee; Nov 27, 2008 at 01:23 PM.
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Old Nov 27, 2008, 02:53 PM
Look outside the Square
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Gosford, Australia
Joined Jan 2006
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Hi Lee, luv your work on the Birds. They look fantastic. Have been playing with my interpretation of my 24 inch Bird for the last month. I've had varied success. I tried a gull wing ( inverted Jerbear's wing from his Corsair ). It had trouble turning in its original form with a V-Tail so their has been a bit of modding etc since. Its still a work in progress but I'm having fun doing it. May be not as Bird Like and Stylish like yours but I just want to have a bit of fun with local Cockatoo's, Magpies and Gallahs where I fly. All the Best

B x
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Last edited by Boxhead; Nov 27, 2008 at 03:10 PM.
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Old Nov 27, 2008, 03:35 PM
Lee
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Boxhead

I may have different tools but it is the same process of trial and error. I'm curious how your bird will fly. You may have the same tail control problem that I have been trying to fix. If you get her flying shoot some video. I either get the look or the performance. Mating the two is a challenge. It is amazing that birds evolved to handle the problem considering how complex the problem really is.

Lee
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Old Nov 27, 2008, 04:43 PM
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Western Europe 52.7 N 8.9 W
Joined Jul 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boxhead
Hi Lee, luv your work on the Birds. They look fantastic. Have been playing with my interpretation of my 24 inch Bird for the last month. I've had varied success. I tried a gull wing ( inverted Jerbear's wing from his Corsair ). It had trouble turning in its original form with a V-Tail so their has been a bit of modding etc since. Its still a work in progress but I'm having fun doing it. May be not as Bird Like and Stylish like yours but I just want to have a bit of fun with local Cockatoo's, Magpies and Gallahs where I fly. All the Best

B x
I've been chased around a good bit by Crows but I would hesitate to take on an Australian Magpie ......

http://www.truveo.com/Multiplex-Easy...k/id/805855976
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Old Nov 27, 2008, 07:29 PM
Look outside the Square
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Gosford, Australia
Joined Jan 2006
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No problem Lee with the video.

hobie14, Yep, come mating season, mate they will attack you, just walking down the street. Very territoral the buggers are.

B x
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Old Dec 01, 2008, 08:21 PM
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Connecticut, USA
Joined Oct 2008
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Geeze Lee! You must be a hot wire mad man! I have been reading with serious interest. I have to say that your first prototype flew amazingly well. so far my vote is for the original tail. Now I wasn't standing in the field with you but from my chair in front of my computer it seemed that you had very good control of that bird (no pun intended). I am curious, why have you decided to try such a large aileron surface on one of your prototypes? Keep it up...I'm cleanin the work bench right now...

Regards

Paul
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Old Dec 01, 2008, 09:48 PM
Lee
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USA, UT, Orem
Joined Jul 2004
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wynterhawk
Geeze Lee! You must be a hot wire mad man! I have been reading with serious interest. I have to say that your first prototype flew amazingly well. so far my vote is for the original tail. Now I wasn't standing in the field with you but from my chair in front of my computer it seemed that you had very good control of that bird (no pun intended). I am curious, why have you decided to try such a large aileron surface on one of your prototypes? Keep it up...I'm cleanin the work bench right now...

Regards

Paul
I must confess...Saying I am a hot wire mad man is an understatement. I have cut over 70 planes since August, many of them variations of original designs.

Don't forget what this plane is going to do. In Utah the falconers get together and fly their real live falcons in a contest. For the last two years they have invited me both as a program filler and as a special interest sideshow to fly. There is no runway and I have to land in sagebrush and desert wheat and rocks and last year...mud.

The last two years I have flown more conventional planes, including flying wings. The falconers have had me dropping tennis balls with $1s, $5s and $10s rubberbanded to them to the kids. I was goofing around afterwards and started to fly the routeen that the falcons fly including a stoop dive and finished it off with an unnatural barrel roll and vertical roll. It was such a big hit I couldn't resist pushing it one step farther.

As we got talking about the performance later I said it would have been fun to have a plane that looked like a bird to do the routeen and this project was started.

I spent the last two weeks cutting 6 more (for a total of 9) of these peregrines getting them ready for the artists that are going to do their best to give them the natural look. I want spare planes so if one is down I just grab another. I will probably have 4 with me at the Sky Trials and am planning on setting them on pearches just like the falconers do with the falcons.

I want them on the edge for aerobatics with high speed rolls and loops and to add sizzle to the way they fly. The complex angles of the wings make it difficult to hinge the ailerons and paint the planes. This aileron hinge line is easier to build and I feel like I want more roll for show. It still needs to be flight tested but I'm sure it can be trimmed in. The ailerons are not going to move far but they are big.
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Old Dec 01, 2008, 10:14 PM
Out the Window
High Flyin''s Avatar
United States, FL, Alachua
Joined Jul 2004
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee
Here are some pictures of the new prototypes. They are some of the most complex cuts I have ever attempted.
Lee, what a great looking airplane/bird! It looks like a sculpture with great lines. It should have plenty of aileron, it looks like almost 40% of the wing area. The aircraft in the first part of the thread looks like it flys great! Please be sure to get a video of this one in flight....it should be impressive looking!

Ray
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Old Dec 02, 2008, 05:00 AM
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Connecticut, USA
Joined Oct 2008
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Lee, well it is a work of art to be sure. The very best at the Falconer's ball! I asume you will post pics and vids? Now a question if I may, since I am NOT a hot wire magician and I will be using depron (6mm) do you think a KF airfoil would be appropriate? I downloaded the plan on this post of the multilayered wing with the spar as well. Not sure which way to go here but from what I can see from the pics of your designs you have a very special airfoil cut there and I assume that is the heart of the fantastic flight characteristics of your birds..

Great stuff. By the way, I checked in at your home page and I have to say you present more common sense great information for the RC enthusiast newbee and experienced alike than I have ever seen. I sure wish I had had the opportunity of this kind of instruction when I was learning RC about 10...no 20...well a long time ago. Really well done. Alot of info, time and effort. I think that page should somehow be listed on the main page of this forum......my opinion
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Old Dec 02, 2008, 06:59 AM
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Connecticut, USA
Joined Oct 2008
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"I finally cut the entire rudder off leaving the inverted V-Tail and the plane lost all control and would slide sideways. I broke the wing in 4 pieces on the no rudder test flight"

Yanno I've been thinkin....Dave Powers has had a lot of success using a gyro and what he calls "duckerons" but what I think are more like speed brakes at the end of the wings on his X-36 tailess jet that stops the tendency of the wing to yaw......then you could use a flat tail and all your buddies will be scratching their heads wondering how the heck that bird is flying! I have to say I am an old "we don't need no stinkin gyro" kind of guy but its starting to intrigue me. It seems it smooths out the wrinkles in windy weather etc so I'm thinking of trying it out some time soon..
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Old Dec 02, 2008, 05:59 PM
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If you cut down the foam and recess the speed brakes and cut them to the feather profiles they'll all but disappear. Geeze I'm beginning to like this idea! Wonder if Dave would let us in on how he deploys those puppies....hmmmm
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Old Dec 02, 2008, 06:38 PM
Lee
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USA, UT, Orem
Joined Jul 2004
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More on the Utah Sky Trials

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=796029

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=817699



This is their web site.

http://ebiz.netopia.com/utahskytrials/

And a map to the flying site.

http://ebiz.netopia.com/utahskytrial...ield&UID=10002


Lee
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Last edited by Lee; Dec 05, 2008 at 10:09 AM.
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