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Old Mar 06, 2009, 12:14 PM
Lee
PERFECT LANDING !!!
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USA, UT, Orem
Joined Jul 2004
9,157 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by SailingAlong
I am a relatively a new flyer as of about October 2008. I was flying normal rudder elevator gliders, cubs, etc. Some would tell me that V Tails were this or that, but my experience with my FlyParty EPP Eagle has been just fine and seems no less as easy to fly as the conventional planes, etc. It may be a tad more responsive, but it certainly has not made any difference to me. Besides, they look better with a V Tail, the very reason one would want to fly one anyway Use Elevon mixing on your transmitter and you are good to go.

Steve
Lakeville MN
Steve

I have used both the V-Tails and the conventional tails. Both work. The V-Tail looks good and works well in the slower floater planes. There are places that it wouldn't be the first choice. The Peregrine we are flying ailerons elevator without mixing. It is designed to fly at a higher speed and to be more aerobatic. The V-Tail wouldn't be able to be that aerobatic. If I wanted to use the V-Tail on the Peregrine I would just have the V-Tail be an elevator and leave the ailerons on the wing.

Lee
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Old Mar 06, 2009, 01:00 PM
Look outside the Square
Boxhead's Avatar
Gosford, Australia
Joined Jan 2006
2,620 Posts
Arniep its a 1300 B/Wonder with a 8040 GWS prop. 800 mah 3 cell Battery. Your right its pretty quiet.

B x
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Old Mar 06, 2009, 01:06 PM
Registered User
metro Detroit, MI
Joined Jan 2007
193 Posts
Lee:
I saw your sketchup of the Snoball. Any chance of getting you to do that for the EPP Peregrine?
thanks....Arnie

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee
Steve

I have used both the V-Tails and the conventional tails. Both work. The V-Tail looks good and works well in the slower floater planes. There are places that it wouldn't be the first choice. The Peregrine we are flying ailerons elevator without mixing. It is designed to fly at a higher speed and to be more aerobatic. The V-Tail wouldn't be able to be that aerobatic. If I wanted to use the V-Tail on the Peregrine I would just have the V-Tail be an elevator and leave the ailerons on the wing.

Lee
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Old Mar 06, 2009, 08:19 PM
Lee
PERFECT LANDING !!!
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USA, UT, Orem
Joined Jul 2004
9,157 Posts
I just finished 3D plans on the Capricorn Evolution too and am trying to do the EPP Peregrine.

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=898958

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...1#post11743242

Lee
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Last edited by Lee; Mar 06, 2009 at 08:31 PM.
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Old Mar 07, 2009, 12:09 AM
PunchDrunk ex-Pug try'n fly'n
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United States, MN, Minneapolis
Joined Jan 2009
1,014 Posts
Why so slow?

Hey All,
Got my birds head screwed back on after I broke it's neck.
I am running an elevones set-up. As per sugestions provided by Lee and others here I added reflex and changed my mechanical differential from more up than down to @50-50. She flies pretty well, loops great, rolls slow . When banking she cranks a turn good!
I am still experimenting with CG. How can I tell when it is right? I can fly with my battery anywhere within about a 1" window. I add or subtract reflex via trim to compensate for nose up or down.
I flew two batteries today, not bad but it seems quite slow.
I am running an outrunner BP22-17-6 "Ultimate", 2100Kv, rated @310Watts with 7x4 prop in place of recommended 5x5(also tried). This motor is supposed to fly a 30-65oz airplane
I wish I could show you guys what I'm talking about, but any thoughts or ideas on fine tuning would be appreciated.
jp
OBTW she soars very nice especially with the CG back. (HELP)
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Old Mar 07, 2009, 03:49 AM
D'oh.. Dumb Left Thumb
dekan's Avatar
London, UK
Joined Nov 2006
5,398 Posts
Like the Magpie. BoX are you going to do a plan for it sometime..?

Mind you, the seagulls down our local park hate my orange Delta pretty bad .... so they would probably rip the magpie up in no time.
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Old Mar 07, 2009, 10:28 AM
Lee
PERFECT LANDING !!!
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USA, UT, Orem
Joined Jul 2004
9,157 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by jp.electrik
Hey All,

I am still experimenting with CG. How can I tell when it is right? I can fly with my battery anywhere within about a 1" window. I add or subtract reflex via trim to compensate for nose up or down.
I am running an outrunner BP22-17-6 "Ultimate", 2100Kv, rated @310Watts with 7x4 prop in place of recommended 5x5(also tried). This motor is supposed to fly a 30-65oz airplane
I wish I could show you guys what I'm talking about, but any thoughts or ideas on fine tuning would be appreciated.
jp
OBTW she soars very nice especially with the CG back. (HELP)
I base the CG on how a plane flies. If the plane will glide and you can pull the nose up even a little at slow speed the CG usually isn't too far forward. If the plane doesn't snap roll and will glide uncontrollably the CG is not too far back. At that point I just play with it seeing if I can improve the flying characteristics.

As far as motors go. That is a higher KV motor than I have tried. That would suggest a smaller prop. Are you trying 2S or 3S lipos?

Lee
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Old Mar 07, 2009, 12:08 PM
PunchDrunk ex-Pug try'n fly'n
jp.electrik's Avatar
United States, MN, Minneapolis
Joined Jan 2009
1,014 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee
I base the CG on how a plane flies. If the plane will glide and you can pull the nose up even a little at slow speed the CG usually isn't too far forward. If the plane doesn't snap roll and will glide uncontrollably the CG is not too far back. At that point I just play with it seeing if I can improve the flying characteristics.

As far as motors go. That is a higher KV motor than I have tried. That would suggest a smaller prop. Are you trying 2S or 3S lipos?

Lee
I am flying 3S lippos, 1300mA. I'll try a smaller prop with more pitch.
Does more reflex slow the plane?
jp
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Old Mar 07, 2009, 03:46 PM
PunchDrunk ex-Pug try'n fly'n
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United States, MN, Minneapolis
Joined Jan 2009
1,014 Posts
So far I am not impressed with the BP 22 series outrunners. I have tried 3 so far and been disappointed with all of them. I'm going back to my inrunners.
jp
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Old Mar 07, 2009, 08:45 PM
Registered User
Connecticut, USA
Joined Oct 2008
322 Posts
The Eagle Flies

Finally had some good weather so I got out to the local field to try again with my eagle. First flight was okay but still very spooky. On reflection I realize I am just not used to short coupled / flying wing type aircraft plus the eagle is still not tuned in but I got it up and down without damage. As you can see in the video (My lovely wife did the video chores, her first time as well and I thought she did pretty good) when I don't know what to do next I usually look closely at the airplane like I am examining it while I am thinking "what the hell do I do now?!?!"

Next flight was short and resulted in another bent prop adapter. A quick trip back home and I was back at the field. I moved the battery forward a little more, put a little more reflex in the ailerons and off I went. The first throw I had hi rates on so I landed quickly. Then, finally I started to sort things out and it started to fly pretty good. At least long enough for me to trim it a bit and settle down enough to get a decent flight in. This plane is very touchy to pitch but I am thinking it is the nature of the bird. I also have discovered that when I bent the wing tips I did a bad job and one side is bent a lot more that the other side and it makes a BIG difference on roll. I think half the problems since I started is that she has rolled so quick because of the differential in drag between the two wing tips. I am going to try to rebend one tip tomorrow before I fly again. When I got it down from the last flight I had a whole lot of right up aileron cranked from trim to get it to fly level. I had taken all of the downthrust out of the motor and now that it is flying I can see that I need at least some downthrust as any serious throttle turns her skyward in a hurry. As this is my first try at editing video it is fair at best but you'll get some laughs and the idea. I made a stupid mistake at the beginning that I am including just to remind everyone how quick things can go wrong. Luckily I was unscathed but I could have spent the afternoon in the ER for stiches if I was a little closer. All in all a good day. Let me know what you guys think. Opps...my files are too big so I will have to get back to you all on the videos...sorry about that...hard to teach an old dog new tricks I'm afraid...
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Old Mar 08, 2009, 12:26 AM
have foam, will fly
waqa's Avatar
San Diego
Joined Dec 2008
278 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by billwhit
I am getting ready to build my own. I will be using the dollar tree foam. My question is about the tail. I was considering doing the rudder config, mostly because I don't have experience with v-tails. Is there any advantage to the v-tail that I should consider? Does one seem to fly any better or worse?

Thanks in advance.
I've been wanting to build a bird for a long time and finally got around to it today. I used the FFF Eagle plans scaled to a 36 wingspan and 18 inch length, used one sheet of $dollar tree foam with the paper on. I am really loving this building material, heavier with the paper on but zero reinforcements needed. And nothing but hot glue.

AUW: 160g with Rhino 610mah 2S
Motor: 10g hobbycity outrunner
ESC: 6A Turnigy Plush
5g servos

Balances out nicely about 2 inches from leading each so I think it will be a little nose heavy, just the way I like it when doing the maiden flight. I left plenty of room to slide the battery back so balancing at the field should be easy. I'll post after the maiden tomorrow.
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Old Mar 08, 2009, 04:45 AM
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Exmouth, Devon, UK
Joined Dec 2004
391 Posts
Nice looking bird Waga and very light for 36" span. Should be a real floater. If it's anything like mine, you may want to do a test glide before the maiden. The CG on mine is about 2" back and that's on a 48" span. The CG on these birds seems to want to be more forward than normal and as Wynterhawk has found, they are quite fussy about it and very 'pitchy' if it's too far back. Mine works out to be around 20%.
As Lee said, they are behaving more like flying wings than conventional aircraft. With that in mind, I disconnected the elevator on mine and tried flying on elevons only. It worked OK but control response wasn't as good so I went back to separate ailerons and elevator.
I'm currently working on getting a half-decent roll out of her. At the moment they are very untidy and anything but axial. Still, I suppose the real things don't exactly do a victory roll every time they catch a fish. Would be cool if they did though.
Look forward to seeing the video Wynterhawk.
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Last edited by brantley; Mar 08, 2009 at 04:50 AM.
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Old Mar 08, 2009, 08:00 AM
PunchDrunk ex-Pug try'n fly'n
jp.electrik's Avatar
United States, MN, Minneapolis
Joined Jan 2009
1,014 Posts
Interesting posts, I have found that bending wingtips can be a real adventure. I tried integrated wingtips on my last project. Could not get them square enough to prevent flat spins when turning at higher speeds.
Pithcy, yes, adding reflex helped allot. I am also finding the CG can move farther forward than where I started with glide tests. A good slow speed glide puts the CG to far back for powered flight. I find myself moving more and more forward. I curled my very large elevones at the tips because I was running out of upwards throw. I also added some negative differential as per/ Lee's suggestions. I was still short on upwards travel so I re-cut the hinges to allow a little more.
Flights are steadily improving. I put a watt meter on my motor and found I should be turning a much larger prop. I guess you can't believe everything that some manufacturers say about KV etc...
Tried some video but failed in uploading RATTS!!
Can't wait to try her with more prop or different motor. jp
OBTW: how much did the Dollar Store Eagle cost?
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Old Mar 08, 2009, 11:44 AM
Registered User
Connecticut, USA
Joined Oct 2008
322 Posts
Okay I think I have this video thing figured out a little....although the vids are too large for the forum page so I had to upload onto the Airplane - electric video forum section....enjoy the continuing adventures of hawk and gina my lovely wife, faithful companion, vidiographer and wiseass...


The more I watch the videos the more I can see the wing tip pulling the wing over. It is especially evident when power is applied which makes sense to me. Having a video to watch is a very useful tool when trying new things I've discovered. Maybe you can teach an old new tricks..

Here are the links:


http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1013644
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1013639
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1013634
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Old Mar 08, 2009, 01:42 PM
have foam, will fly
waqa's Avatar
San Diego
Joined Dec 2008
278 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by brantley
Nice looking bird Waga and very light for 36" span. Should be a real floater. If it's anything like mine, you may want to do a test glide before the maiden. The CG on mine is about 2" back and that's on a 48" span. The CG on these birds seems to want to be more forward than normal and as Wynterhawk has found, they are quite fussy about it and very 'pitchy' if it's too far back. Mine works out to be around 20%.
As Lee said, they are behaving more like flying wings than conventional aircraft. With that in mind, I disconnected the elevator on mine and tried flying on elevons only. It worked OK but control response wasn't as good so I went back to separate ailerons and elevator.
I'm currently working on getting a half-decent roll out of her. At the moment they are very untidy and anything but axial. Still, I suppose the real things don't exactly do a victory roll every time they catch a fish. Would be cool if they did though.
Look forward to seeing the video Wynterhawk.

Wow, you weren't kidding about the CG needing to be forward. After the first flight I had to add a second battery up in the nose to move the CG to just under 1.5 inches and she flew nicely, but still porpoised with full throttle so maybe more downthrust (it already has about 3-4 degrees) is needed but I'm ok with pushing the stick forward while she gets some altitude. I built it to try and thermal it like the real thing so I'll be trying trying out a folding prop next weekend. The park I fly at always has nice thermals, I can almost always thermal my foam trainer and am hoping the eagle can too. The added weight to get it balanced isn't much, just over an ounce bringing the AUW to under 7 ounces. I'm surprised the little 10g motor with a 5x3 prop pulls it up easily.

The video is kinda poor, I really need to get a better video camera one of these days.
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