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Old Jan 16, 2009, 08:16 AM
Lee
PERFECT LANDING !!!
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USA, UT, Orem
Joined Jul 2004
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Went out to fly the Peregrine yesterday for the falconer that helped to design the plane. He hadn't seen it fly before and was excited about the way it looked in the air. The bird's performance as usual was lots of rolls and loops and was not to scale for a bird but he seemed to accept the fighter version of the Peregrine. The vertical take off was a little accidental but impressive.

He originally gave advice on the position of the wing and tail when a falcon was soaring and also did some coaching on colors. I have since reversed the dark and light colors on the top of the wing to be more true to life but other than that he feels we have a winner.
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Old Jan 16, 2009, 02:35 PM
PunchDrunk ex-Pug try'n fly'n
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United States, MN, Minneapolis
Joined Jan 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee
I have since reversed the dark and light colors on the top of the wing to be more true to life...

Any photos of the new color scheme to tide me over while I still anxiously anticipate the "Flight of the Falcon".
jp
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Old Jan 16, 2009, 04:22 PM
Where'd The Wise Men Go?!?
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United States, NE, Bellevue
Joined Sep 2007
2,968 Posts
Did I miss another vid post?!?

if i have mentioned this before here please let me know... Lots of talk lately on setting up a wire cutter. I can't say I've done this - but a buddy here has and it works pretty darn well. At least for the Power Setup..

Take an old LiPo pack you don't trust flying any longer, any old ESC that's laying around collecting dust and a simple cheap RX. Hook them all up as normal and then hook your cutting wire to the throttle output on the RX. You've now got a DC supply to your cutter where the current can easily be controlled by the throttle on your TX.

EnjoY!
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Old Jan 16, 2009, 04:47 PM
I eat only vegetarian beef
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Fairlie, New Zealand
Joined Nov 2006
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...just make sure it's a BRUSHED esc!
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Old Jan 16, 2009, 04:58 PM
Lee
PERFECT LANDING !!!
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USA, UT, Orem
Joined Jul 2004
8,640 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by AC5FF
Did I miss another vid post?!?

if i have mentioned this before here please let me know... Lots of talk lately on setting up a wire cutter. I can't say I've done this - but a buddy here has and it works pretty darn well. At least for the Power Setup..

Take an old LiPo pack you don't trust flying any longer, any old ESC that's laying around collecting dust and a simple cheap RX. Hook them all up as normal and then hook your cutting wire to the throttle output on the RX. You've now got a DC supply to your cutter where the current can easily be controlled by the throttle on your TX.

EnjoY!
Make sure it is a brushed ESC because a brushless uses timing not increased power.

I put some videos in the club web site at www.utahflyers.org in the foam cutting tutorial.

Lee
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Old Jan 18, 2009, 05:24 AM
Lee
PERFECT LANDING !!!
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USA, UT, Orem
Joined Jul 2004
8,640 Posts
For those of you building the EPP Peregrine kits.

I have had the Velcro peel the paint it is stuck to and have had to reglue the Velcro to the EPP foam. The Vecro adhesive is not enough it needs a little hot glue to keep it in place. I recommend if you are going to use Velcro that you mask the area where you will be gluing the Velcro to before painting. I updated the instructions too.

Thanks

Lee


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Last edited by Lee; Jan 18, 2009 at 09:29 AM.
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Old Jan 18, 2009, 09:56 AM
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Ashford. Kent. England
Joined Feb 2005
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Got inspired by this thread and took the knife to some depron this weekend.
But first I looked at the eagle plans and pictures on the thread.

I took the plans and pics and dropped them into google sketchup. In there I added dimensions which then lets me scale up or down easily to any size

My 6mm depron sheets were a fraction over the 48" in length so I made my span to this size. Then using both plan and picture as a guide I drew up a wing.

I decided to try a KFm4 section wing, but working it out, it would have been a bit on the thick side..so I used a top balsa spar for raising the top step, but only laminated the bottom layer directly...so have a 12mm step on top and a 6mm step on the bottom..
Both steps are identical and are at 40-45 % back from the leading edge..

My tail I made as normal rather than a V layout.
Motor is one of the BW's with a 8x4.5 folder on it.. with 3cells it seems to have plenty of thrust.
AUW with a 1250 lipo is 14oz
I have a servo on each aileron, using a flaperon mix so I can play around and change the camber and see if that does any good.

All in black it looks crowlike.. it just needs some eyes
.
.
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Old Jan 18, 2009, 11:14 AM
PunchDrunk ex-Pug try'n fly'n
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United States, MN, Minneapolis
Joined Jan 2009
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Foam?

EPP, Depron, Z foam, Elapore, What's the diff. what's the best?
Did I forget any, FFF?

jp
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Old Jan 18, 2009, 11:16 AM
Where'd The Wise Men Go?!?
AC5FF's Avatar
United States, NE, Bellevue
Joined Sep 2007
2,968 Posts
Good Question JP
....
I can't wait to get a good answer.. I stick with FFF myself. I'd prefer depron or EPP, but no source that I've found around here and I believe it's a bit more expensive...
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Old Jan 18, 2009, 12:30 PM
PunchDrunk ex-Pug try'n fly'n
jp.electrik's Avatar
United States, MN, Minneapolis
Joined Jan 2009
1,014 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by AC5FF
Good Question JP
....
I can't wait to get a good answer.. I stick with FFF myself. I'd prefer depron or EPP, but no source that I've found around here and I believe it's a bit more expensive...

Here's something I found: http://RCSkyFlyer.com
I love EPP just wondering about the other stuff.
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Old Jan 18, 2009, 01:38 PM
Lee
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USA, UT, Orem
Joined Jul 2004
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I have cut alot of different kinds of foam with a hot wire over the last 28 years.

White bead foam
is still a good foam to build with. I wouldn't build a combat wing out of it but if I was going to balsa sheet the foam or vacuum bag it with fiberglass it would be the foam of choice. It is light, It is cheap. It is easy to get. It doesn't soak up water like EPP. It cuts very well and is what I use to test my new jigs to make sure they are working well before cutting the more expensive EPP foam. I used to build most of my planes out of it. It covers well with low temperature iron on coverings without the 3M77 or 3M90. Once it has a covering on it it does better than balsa in an accident and is easier to repair than balsa. Don't overlook it as a good building material. I have cut over 100 wings out of white bead foam.

Blue or Pink foam is 1/4 the price of EPP. It is strong and easy to cut. It is easy to find. It does dent more than white bead foam but if you heat it with a monocoat covering iron most of the dents will pop back out. I have built combat planes out of it. It doesn't crumble like the white bead foam in an accident. It doesn't soak up water like EPP so it is good for seaplanes. It weighs more than the white bead and is close to the weight of the EPP foam. There are tricks to building that we use with the more brittle foams. I will put a carbon tube or dowel leading edge to prevent the denting you get with heavy use and I cover most of the white and blue foam planes. I have cut about 50 planes out of blue foam.

Blue fanfold foam is a foam used to insulate foundations but it make a great building material. You can get blue foam in both 1/4" and 1/2" thicknesses. I still use it and recommended it when I designed a modification of the Capricorn. I called the Capricorn Evolution. I recently cut 28 planes out of it for our club. It is a great building material but sometimes hard to find. I am able with my foam slicer to slice thin foam if I can't find it at the stores. Another good reason to build a foam cutter!!!!

Depron is 1/4" foam similar to fanfold but it is white and has a tougher surface on both sides. It is frequently used in flat foam plane kits. It paints well. It costs more because it is made for the craft industry rather than the building industry.

EPP's durability and repairability make it my foam of choice for many of my designs. I have cut over 500 wings and planes with this foam. I have cut many designs out of EPP that I don't cover but leave the raw foam exposed. It soaks up water so it is not the foam to use in a seaplane. It is the most expensive foam discussed here. It paints easily but has a waxy surface that won't stick to coverings without 3M77 or 3M90 adhesive. The 3M77 stays sticky and the 3M90 dries but still provides a good surface for iron on coverings. It can be hard to get. My mailman stopped and asked my wife what I was doing with all of the foam I was ordering. He asked if it was just styrefoam. I don't know why he was wondering. I only ordered 60 sheets of it in one year.

Most foams are not strong enough without some form of reinforcement like carbon tubes or rods or my old cheap wood dowel methods. I will cut a grove in the foam with a soldering iron and then hot glue gun a tube in the wing. If I want the wing to be extra strong like the Q planes I will put a tube or rod top and bottom in the wing and it gets stiff as a board. The Q-trainer has a carbon tube on the bottom hidden in the black pinstripe. In combat planes like the "Pinata" I encourage the builders to add some reinforced strapping tape to critical areas to hold the plane together. A "iron on covering" adds a lot of strength to a plane. It does far more than make the plane look good and improve aerodynamics.

Lee
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Last edited by Lee; Jan 18, 2009 at 01:46 PM.
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Old Jan 18, 2009, 05:03 PM
Where'd The Wise Men Go?!?
AC5FF's Avatar
United States, NE, Bellevue
Joined Sep 2007
2,968 Posts
Maybe it's just me -- no; I take that back; I'm sure its me

Using covering on foam has always resulted in disaster for me I am by far not the best or even a great builder when it comes to covering. That's probably my weakest area (besides flying ).

If covering your foam with whatever method be forwarned. The covering - if over shrunk - will easily warp your wings. I have a Raptor48 sloper here I have been working on and while the covering job on the wings turned out great - they did warp the tips a bit
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Old Jan 18, 2009, 09:36 PM
Registered User
Suprise AZ
Joined Sep 2007
57 Posts
Eagle

Quote:
Originally Posted by davereap
Got inspired by this thread and took the knife to some depron this weekend.
But first I looked at the eagle plans and pictures on the thread.

I took the plans and pics and dropped them into google sketchup. In there I added dimensions which then lets me scale up or down easily to any size

My 6mm depron sheets were a fraction over the 48" in length so I made my span to this size. Then using both plan and picture as a guide I drew up a wing.

I decided to try a KFm4 section wing, but working it out, it would have been a bit on the thick side..so I used a top balsa spar for raising the top step, but only laminated the bottom layer directly...so have a 12mm step on top and a 6mm step on the bottom..
Both steps are identical and are at 40-45 % back from the leading edge..

My tail I made as normal rather than a V layout.
Motor is one of the BW's with a 8x4.5 folder on it.. with 3cells it seems to have plenty of thrust.
AUW with a 1250 lipo is 14oz
I have a servo on each aileron, using a flaperon mix so I can play around and change the camber and see if that does any good.

All in black it looks crowlike.. it just needs some eyes
.
.
Thank you for the dimensions on the eagle. I am trying to decide if I want to build an Eagle or a Peregrine. I will build "whatever" out of some EPP and blu fan fold 1/4" 2 sided, I have lots.
You sure can built a lot faster than I, congrats.
Keith

ps-Questions-pic w/blue background is the body of the bird 3-1/4" wide or 7-1/16" ?, what is the depth of the one you bilt from wing mount to bottom of the belly max. I am looking at the dwg with the tan background. ?
Thank you again
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Last edited by idkeith; Jan 18, 2009 at 09:47 PM.
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Old Jan 19, 2009, 04:43 AM
Registered User
Connecticut, USA
Joined Oct 2008
322 Posts
Wow Dave, you did that in a weekend?!?! Outstanding design. Canit wait to see it fly. I was thinking of flaps as well. I see that you have down thrust in the motor. how much?
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Old Jan 19, 2009, 06:05 AM
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Ashford. Kent. England
Joined Feb 2005
6,531 Posts
In the real bird pic the body is smoothing into the wing at approx 7" wide..(Imagine fairings)
On my version I have the fuz at 3" max width with vertical sides..tapering in at the back and front to suit the spinner and general looks.
The fuz was made deep enough internal to take the battery which is the biggest lump..
I mount the battery using 3 strips of velcro..the centre strip for the battery .. the outside strips hold tie overs to keep the battery secure
It ended up at a fraction over 1 3/4" deep external and 3" wide..

The dimensions of the real bird should be used as a guide only.. because of the angle the picture was taken at some of the views might well be foreshortened...only a directly vertical pic would give accurate results.

I combined sizes and shapes from the scaled eagle plan (tan background) and the real pic (blue background) and a lot of 'that looks about right' to give me my shapes.. so my wing ended up at about 9 1/2" average chord, with a straighter look to the overall rear edge, the eagle plan being more curved and with a larger chord.
I chose the eagle shape because it uses a straighter overall wing, this lets me add the KF steps with less problems from the aileron positioning.
However I actually prefer the falcon shape..

My nose/head shape was worked out after fitting the engine and prop out at about the right distance. I looked at crow pics rather than eagle pics because thats what it was looking like, being all black as well.

Downthrust on the engine is about 3-5 degrees..I use one of those black tube mounts, and just cut a slot through two 6mm depron layers, then cool melt glue it in place, with the front end down and the rear up, both ends level with the surface of the depron the angle is about ok..
The flaps were just a result of using the two servos...not deliberate..more lucky, why not..

Now all I need is for the rain and wind weve been having here for ages to stop.. Ive this crow plus a depron superflea clone to maiden

for depron check out any underfloor heating companies..
white and very dark grey(black) is available, but usually only in packs of 20 6mm or 40 3mm..in the UK a pack costs 60 ..6mm=3/sheet..but the sheets are large enough to build a model from..so not too expensive..heres a UK company
http://www.depron.co.uk/prices.htm

Over here we cant get the FF foam..
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