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Old Feb 21, 2003, 11:11 PM
Registered User
Durham Region Ontario
Joined Feb 2003
21 Posts
Just starting out with electric

Hi,

been a glow flyer for awhile and wanted to be able to relax without all the usual stuff at a local park in calm evenings or even indoors during the cold winter.

I felt the foam park fliers were a bit too fast to be flying in my non-club park and I really wanted something unique.

I ended up with an IFO MK3, using a Pixie 20P ESC, 2 HS-81 servos, a GWS EPS-300C (4.43:1), a GWS-4N receiver and a 3 cell Li Poly 950mAh 11.1v battery pack.

Now I can tell you lots about 4-stroke engines but this is all new to me. Does this package make sense?

Bob aka Nuker
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Old Feb 22, 2003, 12:57 AM
Our Daddy and Heli Junkie
Fred Bronk's Avatar
In Heli Wonderland
Joined Aug 1999
22,803 Posts
Bob, Welcome to the EZone!!!!!!!

Your package is not bad, but equipment wieght is very important.

The 20P is overkill but will do the job. The servos are pretty big but OK, maybe 55's?

You may be pushing the GWS 300 pretty hard to, as it doesn't like over 9.6v.

Nice choice on the LP packs for flight time.
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Old Feb 22, 2003, 01:04 AM
Been There! Done That!
boomerace's Avatar
Eugene, Oregon, United States
Joined Sep 2001
19,187 Posts
I'm running a 300C-D w/12 X 6 prop and 8 cell 800NiMH pack on my MK3 and I had to upgrade the tuck rod to size 0.11 to get the thing to pull out of a power on dive without cutting the throttle! No tuck problems after the rod upgrade! Unlimited vertical right out of your hand with this setup!
boomer
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Old Feb 22, 2003, 09:38 AM
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Joined Sep 2002
2,098 Posts
Hey Boomerace,

What are you running for servos, ESC, and receiver on your IFO?

The vendors must love this forum site... every time I come here I discover something else I "need."

My wife is probably going to "Net Nanny" me out of this site.

Sierra Gold
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Old Feb 22, 2003, 10:00 AM
Registered User
Durham Region Ontario
Joined Feb 2003
21 Posts
Thanks for the comments everyone.

Hi Fred,

the reason for the 20p was because of the Li-Poly batteries. From what I learned at my LHS they can be damaged below a certain voltage. The 20p allows programming to shutoff at various voltage points and has a failsafe shutoff for signal loss. To be honest I trust the guy at my LHS and he said it wasn't mandatory but would certainly help protect the battery.

The HS-81's are leftover throttle servos that I had in stock already. The LHS said they were heavier but should be ok and they told me I'd save money (so I told my wife I saved money )
The engine is the same one he flies in his IFO; if I need bigger I can upgrade it later I guess.

I've also been reading about the 'tuck' problem but I figure I'l be starting out slow so if I need to I can upgrade the rod later.

Again many thanks for the input and if anyone else has stuff I should know about the IFO, please feel free to send me in that direction.

Bob

ps Now if only I could get a spray that smelled like burnt nitro ...
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Old Feb 22, 2003, 10:44 AM
Lookin' Good. Real Good.
larsy87's Avatar
London, Canada
Joined Aug 2002
3,979 Posts
Welcome to the ezone Nuker!

You raise a valid point...I do miss the smell of burnt fuel. I loved that smell. Still do, but I can only have the smell during the summer. A spray would be nice...but I would get distracted.

I agree with everyone else who posted here. The 20 amp control is overkill, but should handle anythign you need in the future. The 81's are a little bit big but should still be fine. Good Luck!

Cam
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Old Feb 22, 2003, 10:47 AM
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guyaneze's Avatar
gainesville FL
Joined Jan 2002
1,392 Posts
I'm a bit concerned about your choice of battery

you said you got a

"3 cell Li Poly 950mAh 11.1v battery"

lets see...

I'm not familiar with a 950mAh size....so they might have some characteristic that I'm not familiar with.

I'll choose a larger size li-poly and assume that it is capable of handling more current.

The size I choose is a 1020mAh.

These are capable of handling 4amps continuous...5-6 amps peak maybe....

3 of them in series would give you the 11.1v....but I'm not sure they would be able to handle the current requirements of the 300c(which I am assuming is greater than the 5-6 amps peak output of the lipoly cells....I could be wrong...)

assuming u have 2 packs of cells....each pack containing 3 1020mAh lipoly cells in series....

these 2 packs of in parallel may be able to handle the current requirements...but now we are talking 6 li-poly cells...about $60 dollars in batteries...with a 2040mAh capacity...

also u said you are new to electrics....you got a lipoly charger too right?...just curious....

not saying what you have won't work...based on what i read..i'm not so sure...u might have other info to prove me wrong.

hopefully i don't come off as being evil or something....just concerned because u said "new to electrics"..don't want u getting off to a bad start and joining that large group of people out there that keep telling me to get a real plane and are often amazed when I tell em my parky has flaperons....then they're like....um...what are those?

oh....just looked up the tables at aeromicro and
all the info they have was for 6-8.4 volts....but going on the 8.4 volt info....the eps300c-b(4.43:1 ratio)...runs at 7.3-10 amps

just make sure your batteries can handle similar current draws....I know its more like 11.1-12volts....and its li-poly....not whatever chemistry they may have used to make those charts....

one solution would be to use a smaller prop...but then I'm sure u didn't get all that equipment to just putt around...
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Last edited by guyaneze; Feb 22, 2003 at 10:58 AM.
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Old Feb 22, 2003, 11:16 AM
Been There! Done That!
boomerace's Avatar
Eugene, Oregon, United States
Joined Sep 2001
19,187 Posts
Quote:
Originally posted by sierra-gold
Hey Boomerace,

What are you running for servos, ESC, and receiver on your IFO?

The vendors must love this forum site... every time I come here I discover something else I "need."

My wife is probably going to "Net Nanny" me out of this site.

Sierra Gold
Hitec 55's, GWS 400 w/switch & GWS pico RX w/ Azaar antenna
Works great!
boomer
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Old Feb 22, 2003, 11:18 AM
Registered User
Durham Region Ontario
Joined Feb 2003
21 Posts
OK, fair point, (oh evil one )

guyaneze, sounds like some glow fliers have given you some grief; please don't stick me in the same category (at least until you get to know me better )

I couldn't remember the exact voltage/Mah so I copied the 950 Mah info direct from the Wild RC site

"3-Cell Lithium Polymer Battery Pack
11.1 Volt 950 mAh. Perfect for IFO Mk3 with Graupner 280 motor"
The 950 is what the manufacturer actually sells so I assume it would work

My LHS is actually making the Li Poly pack for me and I was given the option of 2 or 3 cells. The cost is roughly $55 Cdn for the pack. The number he gave me was, I believe about 1000 Mah but when I checked wildrc I saw the 950 and figured "close enough" when I documented it here.

Again he (LHS guy) flies with this pack and engine and gets roughly 30 minutes of flight time.

For the charger I have a Hobbico field charger MkII which now supports Lithium Ion charging.

Number cells (each port): 1-8 NiCd or NiMH, 1-3 Li-Ion

Fast charge current (each port): 0.2A - 2.0A linear (1A max. Li-Ion)

Fast charge termination (each port): peak detection for NiCd and NiMH, constant current / constant voltage for Li-Ion

Trickle charge current (each port): 0, 50, 85 and 100mA, no trickle charge for Li-Ion


and it can also be used for my other pursuits.

And btw I am part of that large group of nitro burning fools out there that never tried electrics but I wanted to give it a shot. I'll still be burning loads of nitro as well this year. That being said I don't comment on anything like the validity of electrics until I've given it a fair shot. And even then it would only be my opinion. The IFO looked like a way to try it out; AND I get to try out something new and play with elevons.

Besides if tells you to get a real plane, tell them you'd rather be running TO the crash.

I just stopped by here to learn as much as I can and to verify that what I'm doing makes some sense.

Thanks again to all

Bob aka Nuker

ps if anyone hears about a spray like that, please post it asap
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Old Feb 22, 2003, 11:24 AM
Been There! Done That!
boomerace's Avatar
Eugene, Oregon, United States
Joined Sep 2001
19,187 Posts
Quote:
Originally posted by Nuker
Thanks for the comments everyone.

Hi Fred,

the reason for the 20p was because of the Li-Poly batteries. From what I learned at my LHS they can be damaged below a certain voltage. The 20p allows programming to shutoff at various voltage points and has a failsafe shutoff for signal loss. To be honest I trust the guy at my LHS and he said it wasn't mandatory but would certainly help protect the battery.

The HS-81's are leftover throttle servos that I had in stock already. The LHS said they were heavier but should be ok and they told me I'd save money (so I told my wife I saved money )
The engine is the same one he flies in his IFO; if I need bigger I can upgrade it later I guess.

I've also been reading about the 'tuck' problem but I figure I'l be starting out slow so if I need to I can upgrade the rod later.

Again many thanks for the input and if anyone else has stuff I should know about the IFO, please feel free to send me in that direction.

Bob

ps Now if only I could get a spray that smelled like burnt nitro ...
Bob the 300c is not gonna last long on over 9.6 V and at the voltage you are talking about will try to pull well over 10 amps! So you better re-enginner your battery idea! As far as the tuck goes if you don't upgrade the rod now be ready to pick up the motor mount in pieces as every time you try a loop you will end up in a screaming dive for the ground! After replacing the motor casing and shaft twice I made the change! (I'm a slow learner and it happens so fast there is no way to cut the power fast enough to recover before it buys the farm!)
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Old Feb 22, 2003, 11:29 AM
Lookin' Good. Real Good.
larsy87's Avatar
London, Canada
Joined Aug 2002
3,979 Posts
Nitro spray - One part 10% nitro fuel
1 part lighter

Directions - Light Nitro on fire. Stand well back and do this outside. Try to capture burn off in bottle by flying over fire with airplane with bottle attached to underside.

Option 2

Put a ziploc back over end of Muffler. Run till full. Pull off and seal. Wait until it condesnes into liquid. REpeat over till you get a full psray bottle. Spray till staisifed.

Cam
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Old Feb 22, 2003, 11:40 AM
Registered User
Durham Region Ontario
Joined Feb 2003
21 Posts
Thanks Boomerace,

I'll talk to my guy at the LHS again (no this wasn't my brain that concocted this; I'm an electric newbie ) He's been running this setup for 2 years; again same engine and he switched to the li ion's about a year ago with no problems.

Is there a better engine that you would suggest? I admittely don't know enough about electrics so I went with the LHS suggestions as I do really trust them. I'll get more info on the battery packs he is making but he did say 3 cell.

Oh yeah and I'll pick up the rod too, thanks

And Mongoose, you sound like you've tried this
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Old Feb 22, 2003, 12:20 PM
Been There! Done That!
boomerace's Avatar
Eugene, Oregon, United States
Joined Sep 2001
19,187 Posts
Quote:
Originally posted by Nuker
Thanks Boomerace,

I'll talk to my guy at the LHS again (no this wasn't my brain that concocted this; I'm an electric newbie ) He's been running this setup for 2 years; again same engine and he switched to the li ion's about a year ago with no problems.

Is there a better engine that you would suggest? I admittely don't know enough about electrics so I went with the LHS suggestions as I do really trust them. I'll get more info on the battery packs he is making but he did say 3 cell.

Oh yeah and I'll pick up the rod too, thanks

And Mongoose, you sound like you've tried this
Something has to give on that set-up! It could be that he is using too small a pack so the actual voltage to the motor is much less and if so the lithiums will suffer from shortened life! There is no way that motor will last with over 10 actual volts going to the motor! The 300C-D is great for the MK3 I have thought of putting on a brushless but after flying it just can't see the necessity as it sure doesn't need any more power!!
boomer
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Old Feb 22, 2003, 12:31 PM
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guyaneze's Avatar
gainesville FL
Joined Jan 2002
1,392 Posts
a better engine

hmmm.....if your guy has been using em and it worx for him...then....maybe this is some info we need....he may have a brand or design of lipoly pack that can handle more current than the kokams we get here from fma....sounds cheaper too @ $55 a 3 pack...premade and all.

now for the better engine....there is a humongous thread in this forum about how that particular gearbox design from gws can be improved....(apparently in the interest of cost they neglected motor timing...and some other brush angle isssue that causes shorter motor lifespan)....so some fellas figured out how to use the same gearbox materials but reverse the output shaft to "improve" the design...and gain about a 1000 more rpm from the same flight gear.

an easy upgrade would be to buy yourself an innerdriven gearbox...where the output shaft turns in the same direction as the motor shaft....bingo all probs fixed.

there is nothing wrong with the 300c as it is......its just....it could be better....we are just concerned you might have a shorter motor life because of the approx...12volts u'll be running it on...

a "better" motor system that can handle all those volts and pull less current might be the geared astro flight brushless 010 with gws gearbox or planetary gearbox. this system would cost more....but would last much much longer...and you should get longer flight times too.
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Old Feb 22, 2003, 03:18 PM
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buzzsaw 46's Avatar
Spring Valley. MN
Joined Jun 2000
4,458 Posts
The best motor

I fly an Astro 010 in my IFO on three kokam 1020 cells and it is fantastic, hover at half throttle or less (dont have time to look at my thumbs) over 22 min of great power no idea how much more time I could get I stop flying as soon as I cant fly verticaly out of a hover. Niether the cells nor the motor are at all stressed in this setup. If you truly want the most for your money this is the setup to get!! I doubt that the 300c could get a 30min flight with 1000mah cells that would require an average amp draw of 2 amps, Possible but doubtful. I'm not calling your lhs guy a lier but it is very easy to get carried away quoting flight times and the 300 motor is an amp hungry motor.

As has been said before the rest of your gear is heavy but usable which will also cost you flight time, remember that it takes more power to keep extra weight flying not as noticable with glow or gas but it makes a big differance when you switch to e-power.


You should really enjoy the IFO reguardless of how you set it up it is a great plane!

Good luck and have fun
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