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Old Aug 24, 2009, 02:15 PM
The RED filters through
RedTalon's Avatar
Rendon, TX
Joined Feb 2007
1,948 Posts
I got my '162 from the HL Crash sale last week - super quick shipping, I had it on Friday after ordering on Wednesday.

The build was easy and I was excited about my first EDF.

I got out to the field early Friday morning to do the Maiden without the Peanut Gallery. Good thing too. After a long take-off run, it finally got airborne... but I needed full throttle to keep it in the air. I struggled to get it around the field, but I ended up crashing, the tail broke off, the left wing broke into 3 pieces and the nose gear bent so that it was difficult to get the battery out...

I'm quite bummed - I really liked the looks of the Salamander - it's so unusual...
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Old Aug 25, 2009, 11:12 AM
Throttle Bender
merlinfan's Avatar
Joined Jun 2008
1,239 Posts
While flying it yesterday I was thinking it must be very nose heavy at the recommended CG. It had so much pitch stability that when I would dive down for a low pass it would want to climb back up. After landing I saw that my 2100 batt had shifted aft thanks to my friend's strong throw on a beautiful hand launch. So, the CG was actually 1/4 inch behind the recommended point. But it still felt nose heavy. I am going to move the CG back another 1/4 inch and give it a try. That is with the 2100 shoved all the way back. I have no nosewheel or servo in the nose. I got a new canopy from HL so I will be painting it before the next flight.

PS James, mine was crashed worse than yours and it all glued back together and flew again so don't get discouraged. My pilot didn't survive, wing repaired in 5 places tail broke in 3 places. I used Woodland Scenics scenery glue, it's a white flexible glue for model railroads and dries a bit faster than canopy glue.
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Old Aug 25, 2009, 11:22 AM
Rem The Wasp CV-7 9/15/42
SammyB's Avatar
Santa Clarita,CA
Joined Apr 2004
1,685 Posts
Good tip on the glue Merlin. Thanks. Canopy glue takes forever.
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Old Aug 25, 2009, 11:27 AM
The thruster don't work!
Roy E Oetting's Avatar
Fairborn, OH
Joined Oct 2002
414 Posts
merlinfan, The fact that it wanted to climb back up doesn't sound like it was nose heavy. How did it slow down for landing? If it came in hot that would indicate that it was nose heavy.
I haven't started building mine yet so I'm trying to learn as much as I can.
Roy
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Old Aug 25, 2009, 10:53 PM
Throttle Bender
merlinfan's Avatar
Joined Jun 2008
1,239 Posts
I know it sounds counter intuitive but all RC noobs should know about the cg dive test. http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=290728


I got a new pilot and canopy and CG now 2" back from LE. Going to put another paper cup in the tailpipe, feels pretty fast at just over half throttle but doesn't pick up much at full throttle.
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Old Aug 26, 2009, 03:28 AM
The thruster don't work!
Roy E Oetting's Avatar
Fairborn, OH
Joined Oct 2002
414 Posts
I wouldn't consider myself a noob since I first flew my own RC plane back around 1966. I'm also a CFII (certified flight instructor instrument) so I think I understand a little about flight. I understand what Haldor is saying and that is IF you are trimmed up at level flight in order to compensate for nose heavy you have trimmed in more than normal up elevator. When the plane is in a dive the airspeed picks up and the tail becomes more effective pulling the nose up resulting in a climb. A correctly balanced plane will do the same. It is trying to return to the same airspeed it was trimmed for. A plane that is tail heavy is over sensitive in pitch. Is your plane oversensitive in pitch or does your plane have a tendency to fly faster on final? The first case the CG is to close to the center of pressure or aft of the center of pressure and in the second as you glide and go slower the tail power is less effective because of the nose heavy condition and the plane winds ups carrying more speed.
Other things can effect the plane such as wrong incidences or thrust lines.
Another thing you can observe (dependent of the main gear being located in the correct place) is that on the ground does the plane bounce excessively on the nose wheel or does it take very little pressure on the tail to push it down. That would indicate that more weight is carried on the main gear than it should indicating that you may have a tail heavy plane.
I'd just be cautious moving the CG to far aft because it may result in an uncontrollable plane.
To me the simplest test is pitch sensitivity.
Roy
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Old Aug 26, 2009, 10:25 AM
Throttle Bender
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Joined Jun 2008
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Sorry Roy, hope I didn't offend you. I'm also a CFII and once flew a 727 freighter that was accidentally loaded outside of the fwd CG limit. Exciting! However every thing I learned about CGs and stability in ground school never really sank in till I learned to fly RC. I guess its because we can be test pilots without worrying about fatal consequences. I prefer to fly scale planes that are slightly nose heavy and exibit some positive stability compared to 3D jobs that are totaly neutral or a little tail heavy.


One example is an over powered, nose heavy, flat bottom wing trainer that needs down trim/elevator to fly level at around half throttle. Even though it has down elevator, when placed in a dive it will still pitch up as its airspeed increases. Positive stability. CG ahead of center of pressure, or center of lift.


My Salamander is now a belly lander so I land it flat to avoid striking the tail first. We use a petro-mat as our runway so it slides along nicely and leaves a black streak on the belly that looks like weathering.
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Old Aug 26, 2009, 04:12 PM
Throttle Bender
merlinfan's Avatar
Joined Jun 2008
1,239 Posts
Latest flight report. Flew better with CG moved back 1/2 inch from Starmax recommended point, still has enough stability. In the dive test it pitches up slightly. All other issues stayed the same, twitchy in roll, easy to overbank due to high roll rate, pitches up when power chopped due to high mounted thrust line. I've learned to push the nose down in case of a dead stick. I don't fly it over 5 min with a 2100 mah battery. Going to do the paper cup taipipe next.
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Old Aug 26, 2009, 04:24 PM
The RED filters through
RedTalon's Avatar
Rendon, TX
Joined Feb 2007
1,948 Posts
Other than using a little bit bigger battery, are you using the stock power system? I'm contemplating trying to fix mine. From what I remember on my one short flight was that full power barely kept it in the air...
On the rebuild - I had the notion of carving out the battery tray and using a 4s...
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Old Aug 26, 2009, 05:08 PM
The thruster don't work!
Roy E Oetting's Avatar
Fairborn, OH
Joined Oct 2002
414 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by merlinfan
Sorry Roy, hope I didn't offend you. I'm also a CFII and once flew a 727 freighter that was accidentally loaded outside of the fwd CG limit. Exciting! However every thing I learned about CGs and stability in ground school never really sank in till I learned to fly RC. I guess its because we can be test pilots without worrying about fatal consequences. I prefer to fly scale planes that are slightly nose heavy and exibit some positive stability compared to 3D jobs that are totaly neutral or a little tail heavy.


One example is an over powered, nose heavy, flat bottom wing trainer that needs down trim/elevator to fly level at around half throttle. Even though it has down elevator, when placed in a dive it will still pitch up as its airspeed increases. Positive stability. CG ahead of center of pressure, or center of lift.


My Salamander is now a belly lander so I land it flat to avoid striking the tail first. We use a petro-mat as our runway so it slides along nicely and leaves a black streak on the belly that looks like weathering.
727 WOW, I haven't flown anything bigger than a Cessna 310 and Piper Navajo. Not flying anymore and I miss it.
I was going to mention about the CG being forward may add to the realism of takeoffs and landings but since you are not using gear it isn't applicable. I would like to see a long landing for the 162. I'm in the process of uploading some video to "You Tube" of two pushers I flew this morning. Both use a lot of runway on takeoffs and landings. I think it would be all right to post the JAS-39 in this thread since I used it earlier to demonstrate how down thrust can eliminate or reduce the moment force generated by the high thrust line.
Roy
The pusher videos can be found here. (JAS-39 & 30X) JAS-39 demonstrates the down thrust used to compensate for the high thrust line. Both videos show landings that I would like to achieve with the He-162. I widened the landing gear on the 30X pusher and I plan to do that initially on the He-162.
http://www.youtube.com/user/Eugensdiet
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Old Aug 26, 2009, 08:57 PM
Throttle Bender
merlinfan's Avatar
Joined Jun 2008
1,239 Posts
Red, My plane crashed on a rocky riverbank and the motor and ESC went into brackish water, the ESC fried and the motor has some corrosion on the shaft but it ran on a CC45 amp ESC. Recently the motor froze up but I was able to oil the bearings and free it up. I'm running a cheap no name ESC that Easytger gave me as a replacement for 25 amper that came in one of his foamys. Gave that plane to a friend. Anyway it now cuts out at partial throttle but goes fine at full bore. My buddies say it sounds like a pulse jet. Every flight may be its last. My exhaust cone is shorter than my first one but the outlet is still 52mm.
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Old Aug 26, 2009, 11:23 PM
Long-Time Member
James Frolik's Avatar
Cologne, Germany
Joined Dec 1996
2,394 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by merlinfan
All other issues stayed the same, twitchy in roll, easy to overbank due to high roll rate, pitches up when power chopped due to high mounted thrust line...Going to do the paper cup taipipe next.
Good option, I believe. If you read my post(s), the pitching up with power off or down with power on was never a problem with the tailpipe. Twitchy rolls were a slight problem (I believe I used 40% exponential) and possibly one that added to its crash--and, unfortunately, I had decided to install a gyro (which might have easily saved it) after that final day of flying the model. (I ordered a gyro specifically for the He-162 and had been testing it and getting used to it on a foamy pylon racer.)
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Old Aug 27, 2009, 09:24 AM
Throttle Bender
merlinfan's Avatar
Joined Jun 2008
1,239 Posts
Since I'm using a non computer radio without expo, I'm thinking of dialing down the aileron throws a bit. Several times on each flight I get to 90 degrees of bank unintentionally.
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Old Aug 29, 2009, 06:13 PM
Throttle Bender
merlinfan's Avatar
Joined Jun 2008
1,239 Posts
Paper cup exhaust, noticably faster. But after 2.5 min I felt I was losing power so I reduced pwr amd got on a high downwind. Cut to idle and came in a little hot. As it flew by me I could hear the fan windmilling and it sounded like a coffee grinder. I could see that the fan was rubbing on the housing, took out the fan and it seemed that the motor had loose mounting screws. When I got the fan off I could see the the motor mounting surface had melted. It was over 90 degrees F. The motor mst have gotten extra hot because of the corrosion on the shaft and bearings. Now the motor has a loud scraping sound when I rotate the shaft. I am shopping for a fan/motor that is cheap. Plane doesn't fly well enough to put in a high end setup. Sorry Don. Jettech has a 64mm with outrunner that looks like it will work.
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