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Old Nov 04, 2008, 04:06 PM
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Meridian, ID.
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Thanks Kai for your explantions. I'll check out those links you provided. It is probably best to wait for LAHeli. Maybe by the end of the year they may have more gear options. Once again, thanks
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Old Nov 04, 2008, 05:37 PM
Always comPLANEing
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Pleasant Valley Modelport
Joined Sep 2006
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Tamej, I suppose I shouldn't go into the OT stuff, I'm already the OT King, I think. Maybe my new Avatar, with a throne, crown, etc.
But the motor looks excellent, need more time. Also looks like a great 4S motor for my MX400 CPM.

I think I would go metal pinion if they are stripping. If they are, then the intention of the device is bringing on more trouble. I'd rather risk the main gear than likely do the usual CP head damage because it stripped. So they are mod .4 ? I'll look back.

CH
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Old Nov 04, 2008, 06:15 PM
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USA, WA, Seattle
Joined Sep 2004
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chophop
Tamej, I suppose I shouldn't go into the OT stuff, I'm already the OT King, I think. Maybe my new Avatar, with a throne, crown, etc.
But the motor looks excellent, need more time. Also looks like a great 4S motor for my MX400 CPM.

I think I would go metal pinion if they are stripping. If they are, then the intention of the device is bringing on more trouble. I'd rather risk the main gear than likely do the usual CP head damage because it stripped. So they are mod .4 ? I'll look back.

CH
They are mod 0.4 (64pitch is close enough). As to stripping, it's only an issue with high power loads on the 14 tooth, I have actually not had any damage caused by pinions stripping in flight (I have auto'ed down in those situations where the 14 tooth let go, and not had any stripping problems with any of the 15T and larger pinions).

What I'm getting at, is that the Maxir/Ricco setups most people fly on, are tried and true and don't need tweaking. Why re-invent the wheel if you don't yet have the capability of utilizing what's already there?

Start with one of the recommended setups and go from there if you choose, the Axi 2208/20 with 15 tooth plastic pinion is already a perfect combo for power and duration on 3 cells (I've personally flown hundreds of flight hours on that combo doing tictocs, rainbows, loops, rolls, flips, inverted, piroflips, etc.). The current recommended setup's duration, nor power are left wanting, so you have to ask yourself, what are you attempting to do?

Even with a new motor that specs out well on paper, the only way to know for sure is to try it out in flight. Do you want to try to overcome potentally new issues, or to get in the air knowing that the potential problems you face have already been handled by others and the answers are just a few posts away?

My motor and cell count experiments are "because it's there" tinkering, either Maxir or Ricco are perfectly capable of up through hard 3D with just the 2208/20 setup (and yet still capable of hovering around for >14min on TP1320). I will be the first to admit that my 4cell Maxir SE is just for show, the real advancement in flying skills I garner, comes from my 3cell 2208/20 Maxir SE setup (4s is on my blue SE, 3s is on my red SE).

-Kai
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Old Nov 04, 2008, 06:38 PM
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The spawn for a different motor is by not getting people to accept it's ~$75 price when they see similar motors for $15 to $20. One of my reasons for the IO post. I know to be sure and catch that excessive IO on the cheap motors of the same KV.
I'll keep a watch on the 15T situation, but I don't mean to call you a liar.
It's so hard to convince me a plastic pinion is going to be reliable under that much stress. If it does, GREAT ! I repair and modify plastic injection machines. But I also do the same to CNC machines.
What works is what counts and the plastic will be one more chip off the weight.

CH
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Old Nov 04, 2008, 06:47 PM
Thermals the path to elevation
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United States, AZ, Chandler
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The other thing CH is these plastic pinions are one reason the MaxiR / Ricco are so quiet in flight. The meshing of plastic pinions against a plastic main gear not only runs silent, but it allows you to run a lash-free mesh due to the properties of the nylon.

While Kai definitely pounds his heli's harder in 3D, I have never had a pinion strip in flight using the -20 or -26 motors. In fact, hitting throttle hold fast enough usually results in no stripping even after a crash. Now the Y0555 conical is another story after a crash, but it does fuse and saves the tail drive-train and tail-blades

I'm sold on staying with the plastic pinions.
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Old Nov 04, 2008, 06:55 PM
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Meridian, ID.
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So the advantage of plastic pinion is the lash-free mesh and noise? Most other manufacturers use metal, why does the Maxir/Ricco use plastic? I like the Ricco very much, just trying to learn more about it. Christmas is coming you know.
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Old Nov 04, 2008, 07:04 PM
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I will most likely have a Maxir by spring or sooner, or else I wouldn't be here would I ? So I guess there is no need for a splined shaft either, no slipping ?
I'm sure others will have the same concerns.
And quiet is a big plus for the neighbors. Some people just can't stand that gear whine.
Oh yea, I forgot, the 14 and 15T pinions will have the full tooth profile, not undercut like 11,12, ~13. That means a 15T plastic could actually be more reliable than an 8, 9, 10T metal. Those would have a tooth root slimmer than the mid section, just asking to break. I guess they fell into that out of weight and production cost concerns.

One more and I'll give the thread back. Go more on a more efficient motor. You buy one motor and many batteries. 10 minute flights on $15 batteries sounds good.

CH
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Old Nov 04, 2008, 07:32 PM
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Fusion Pack 1200mah, 600mah put back in by charger, 2208/20 with 15 tooth pinion... Nuf said

Maxir Red SE 3cell (Indoor Part 2) (6 min 29 sec)
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Old Nov 04, 2008, 07:36 PM
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Thinking out loud here, ignore my nonsense if your not looking for some ..

I have to admit I was rather skeptical on the whole plastic pinion thing, it's certainly isn't the norm but I went more on the field results of the Maxir thread then my own personal opinions. The Maxir has been around since the heydays of the Hornet and the birth of the Honeybee King V1 , the Ricco is simply a evolution of the Maxir. I would think that if the pinion design was a bad one it would have been replaced / revised.

As for the motor selection yep it would be nice if there was a cheap $30 motor to throw in for those who are just looking to get by. Of questions of build quality though holding any one of my AXI motors next to any one of my Scorpion motors the difference is amazing, the winds are cleaner, the magnets are perfect, the bearings are bigger , gaps are cleaner. Overpriced ? well I think in this case you do get what you pay, I'm in the camp that a top shelf heli deserves a top shelf motor (which it has) but it would be nice to offer the 4 cylinder version as well , a gap filler..

I went with tried and true using the helpful advice from the guys on the MaxIR thread and I'm thankful I did , no need to trail blaze or reinvent on a platform that I am a newcomer to.

End of nonsense..
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Old Nov 04, 2008, 07:46 PM
ElektroRC.com - MSH,LAHeli,YGE
Pewaukee, WI, USA
Joined Mar 2002
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I have a couple cheap motor combos. I can sell the motors separate if you want as well. The cheap ESC is kinda like a low grade Ph 10.

Lee has the 1900kv versions as well.
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Old Nov 04, 2008, 07:50 PM
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Wow, that is a cheap combo Pete.. You could throw a base MaxIR with that combo together on the cheap..
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Old Nov 04, 2008, 08:02 PM
Thermals the path to elevation
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United States, AZ, Chandler
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tamej
So the advantage of plastic pinion is the lash-free mesh and noise? Most other manufacturers use metal, why does the Maxir/Ricco use plastic? I like the Ricco very much, just trying to learn more about it. Christmas is coming you know.
Don't forget an intentional design for the plastic pinions to be a fuse. These pinions strip in the event the drive train cannot turn, and it saves the main gear as well as any other parts that would have been destroyed by rotational energy.

It's much easier (and cheaper) to press on an inexpensive pinion than replace these parts.
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Old Nov 04, 2008, 08:09 PM
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Lower cost of ownership , something we could all use these days..
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Old Nov 04, 2008, 08:10 PM
Thermals the path to elevation
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United States, AZ, Chandler
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Nice Kai - did you smack off the head button at the 4:56 mark?? That impressive enough to attempt on purpose
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Old Nov 04, 2008, 08:17 PM
ElektroRC.com - MSH,LAHeli,YGE
Pewaukee, WI, USA
Joined Mar 2002
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raynet11
Wow, that is a cheap combo Pete.. You could throw a base MaxIR with that combo together on the cheap..
Lee and I are on it already

Skypup has the first one!
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