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Old Oct 27, 2008, 12:42 AM
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BushmanLA's Avatar
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Obama - 2001 - Tell us how you really feel. (Wealth redistrobution)

Holy cow.....

If this doesn't convince you that the guy is a socialist at heart then I don't know what will.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iivL4c_3pck
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Old Oct 27, 2008, 01:00 AM
Registered User
Oahu, Hawaii
Joined Nov 2006
237 Posts
Personally I feel we need a little robin hood in our lives.


The last eight years of bush has been bad for me personally and for the country. We are embroiled in two wars and the economy has melted into a sink hole, taking my job with it. You guys (R) want to continue along with the bush/neocon policies of the past.

Are you folks crazy?

Luckily most of the country does not agree with you and it looks like Obama will win. I have no problem with raising taxes on people who make 250k or more a year.

I think we should be spending the 10 billion a month iraq costs and spend it on infrastructure and research into alternative energy. America is a strong and resourceful nation. I believe we can fix the damage that has been done.
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Old Oct 27, 2008, 01:05 AM
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MtnGoat's Avatar
Lyle, WA
Joined Dec 2000
1,478 Posts
admits the basis of the constitution is negative rights and not positive rights as so many here claim

seeks redististributive change
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Old Oct 27, 2008, 01:08 AM
Alarm Bells Continuing!
Big Foot 48's Avatar
Arizona
Joined Oct 2001
276 Posts
This should be a big story, if the MSM even reports it. Yes, let's elect an barely known person to be President just because we don't like the current President and his party. Fun times will be had by all.
Quote:
MODERATOR: Good morning and welcome to Odyssey on WBEZ Chicago 91.5 FM and weíre joined by Barack Obama who is Illinois State Senator from the 13th district and senior lecturer in the law school at the University of Chicago.

OBAMA: If you look at the victories and failures of the civil rights movement and its litigation strategy in the court, I think where it succeeded was to vest formal rights in previously dispossessed peoples. So that I would now have the right to vote, I would now be able to sit at the lunch counter and order and as long as I could pay for it Iíd be okay.

But the Supreme Court never ventured into the issues of redistribution of wealth and sort of more basic issues of political and economic justice in this society. And to that extent as radical as people tried to characterize the Warren court, it wasnít that radical. It didnít break free from the essential constraints that were placed by the founding fathers in the Constitution, at least as itís been interpreted, and the Warren court interpreted it in the same way that generally the Constitution is a charter of negative liberties. It says what the states canít do to you, it says what the federal government canít do to you, but it doesnít say what the federal government or the state government must do on your behalf. And that hasnít shifted. One of the I think tragedies of the civil rights movement was because the civil rights movement became so court focused, I think that there was a tendency to lose track of the political and community organizing and activities on the ground that are able to put together the actual coalitions of power through which you bring about redistributed change and in some ways we still suffer from that.

MODERATOR: Letís talk with Karen. Good morning, Karen, youíre on Chicago Public Radio.

KAREN: Hi. The gentleman made the point that the Warren court wasnít terribly radical with economic changes. My question is, is it too late for that kind of reparative work economically and is that that the appropriate place for reparative economic work to take place Ė the court Ė or would it be legislation at this point?

OBAMA: Maybe Iím showing my bias here as a legislator as well as a law professor, but Iím not optimistic about bringing about major redistributive change through the courts. The institution just isnít structured that way.

You just look at very rare examples during the desegregation era the court was willing to for example order changes that cost money to a local school district. The court was very uncomfortable with it. It was very hard to manage, it was hard to figure out. You start getting into all sorts of separation of powers issues in terms of the court monitoring or engaging in a process that essentially is administrative and takes a lot of time.

The courtís just not very good at it and politically itís very hard to legitimize opinions from the court in that regard. So I think that although you can craft theoretical justifications for it legally. Any three of us sitting here could come up with a rational for bringing about economic change through the courts.

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Last edited by Big Foot 48; Oct 27, 2008 at 01:21 AM.
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Old Oct 27, 2008, 01:13 AM
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MtnGoat's Avatar
Lyle, WA
Joined Dec 2000
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he intends to use the power of the State to engage in 'social justice', which in his mind and many others, means taking people's property and delivering it to someone else.
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Old Oct 27, 2008, 01:16 AM
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Japan
Joined Jun 2008
183 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by BushmanLA
Holy cow.....

If this doesn't convince you that the guy is a socialist at heart then I don't know what will.

Is there something bad with socialism ? beside the fact that you were told at school it was no good ?
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Old Oct 27, 2008, 01:21 AM
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Lyle, WA
Joined Dec 2000
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other than treating people as chattel, denying them direct control over their own lives and choices, violating their negative rights wholesale, and transferring massive amount of power to the State while meddling in free market economics to the kind of result we see today, no, nothing bad about it at all.

I don't go with what I 'was told'. I look into it's basis, it's roots, it's ideals, and it's practices. Then I reject it on that basis.
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Old Oct 27, 2008, 01:25 AM
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Oahu, Hawaii
Joined Nov 2006
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you guys are insane if you think that is going to happen under obama.

even if it does I think I personally will be better off than I am now from all the free market capitalist philosophy that has run unchecked in the past 8 years...
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Old Oct 27, 2008, 01:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by munen123
you guys are insane if you think that is going to happen under obama.

even if it does I think I personally will be better off than I am now from all the free market capitalist philosophy that has run unchecked in the past 8 years...

At least you are honest about wanting free stuff from your rich neighbor.

Honestly, I'd probably be better off in a socialist state right now too. Heck, now that I think about it, why bother finishing off my degree since I can just slack on easy street and leach off all those other idiots who worked harder than me. I'm sold, vote Obama!
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Old Oct 27, 2008, 02:00 AM
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Oahu, Hawaii
Joined Nov 2006
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yea bushman that is exactly what I mean.

I have finished my college degree and I also have a masters degree. I do not want 'stuff' from my rich neighbor. what I want is a government that responds to the people and not to the whims of corporations.

You think your guy is going to do any better? Look around you, think any of bush's friends just got laid off? no they are taking all of my tax money and spending on wars and bailing out rich people.
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Old Oct 27, 2008, 05:01 AM
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United States, FL, Tampa
Joined May 2008
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That is scary stuff. I hope people come to their senses before they vote.
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Old Oct 27, 2008, 05:36 AM
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Janesville, Wisconsin
Joined Aug 2007
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They are NOT free market when the government bailed out Wall Street, some insurance companies, and talk of the auto industry. A free market would have let the collapse. Poor business decisions means your company goes UNDER. I am so sick of people whining about socialism when the current administration has already moved us towards a socialist state.
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Old Oct 27, 2008, 05:44 AM
Useful Idiot
Asturias, Spain
Joined Mar 2001
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I wonder under current conditions how the CEO's of some of the major financial institutions justify their benefits packages or golden handshakes on the basis of their companies' balance sheets, profit and loss accounts, share price etc. being wealth producing. Yet they are happy enough to see that "wealth" redistributed.
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Old Oct 27, 2008, 07:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by martin richards
I wonder under current conditions how the CEO's of some of the major financial institutions justify their benefits packages or golden handshakes on the basis of their companies' balance sheets, profit and loss accounts, share price etc. being wealth producing. Yet they are happy enough to see that "wealth" redistributed.
socialism is good only for the capitalists. It's OK for Wall St. to dip into the
taxpayers pocket with no end (or benefit) in sight while the taxpayer chants
"kill a commie for your mommy," "better dead than Red," etc., etc.

some time ago I was reminded of Yeats

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...postcount=1870

Seems Krugman also is reminded of Yeats

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/27/op...27krugman.html

where this gyre will lead is uncertain and the Objectivists have nothing but spleen.
Another Iraq, this time of the economic kind. A is A.
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Old Oct 27, 2008, 07:32 AM
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Joined Dec 2005
149 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by minan59
They are NOT free market when the government bailed out Wall Street, some insurance companies, and talk of the auto industry. A free market would have let the collapse. Poor business decisions means your company goes UNDER. I am so sick of people whining about socialism when the current administration has already moved us towards a socialist state.
Where are you hearing that the bailout was a good thing? Not from conservatives. It was socialist and most of America was against it.
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