FireFly. . . EPP, KF,SuperFly Clone + Rudder; Plans; Indoor aerobatic video

leadfeather · Oct 25, 2008, 02:09 AM

After watching Don fly the KF ParkJet indoors I thought:

1) No way in h@ll am I going to be able to do do that.
2) With a smaller version maybe I could do that.

Then I was thinking, hmmm... how could we make this into an indoor jet. Then it struck me, take a SuperFly , add a rudder like the KF ParkJethttp://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...ght=kf+Parkjet and voila that should do it. The result is the FireFly; an all epp, simple to build, indoor outdoor capable flier.

The video shows the actual maiden flight from this evening. I hope you guys enjoy watching this one!

Now the MicroFly, 16" span micro FireFly:

MicroFly plans

Guts and video

FireFly (3 min 7 sec)

dekan · Oct 25, 2008, 05:36 AM

That looks really promising Dan...but all that noise...I wonder how long it would take at the indoor venues that I have flown at, before You would be asked not to fly it!

leadfeather · Oct 25, 2008, 08:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dekan

That looks really promising Dan...but all that noise...I wonder how long it would take at the indoor venues that I have flown at, before You would be asked not to fly it!

Thanks Dave. It flies very well. I'm going to try outdoors this AM.

I'll have to see what I can do to quiet it down. The guys at the gym didn't seem to mind at all, acouple are planning to build their own FireFly right away.

dekan · Oct 25, 2008, 11:05 AM

Hey I hadn't thought of that, Dan....Insist that they all build one!
They can't complain then.

I will be following this one, as you know, I am a fully paid up member of the Dr David Halko fan club.Lol

leadfeather · Oct 25, 2008, 11:46 AM

I had very nice weather this AM for flying outdoors. I threw it up in the sky and was very surprised at the speed of this little plane.

Flying indoors last night I used a 2s battery to tame the power down; it just seems to use so little power for the speed it gets. 2s was plenty of power

For fast flying outdoors it worked best with the battery moved forward a little. I flew it with a 500mAh 3s and also with a 1000 mAh 3s battery. In both cases, when throttled up it was a little bullet. It is by far the fastest plane I have flown powered by the Blue Wonder (100 watt) motor. Not only was it fast, it is not pitchy at speed. I hope to get some speed flying video tomorrow AM.

I am very pleased with this little delta. A good aerobatic indoor flier and a good windy day flier too!

All epp means this plane should be very durable.

dekan · Oct 25, 2008, 12:30 PM

Wow! Dan where do you get a 1000Watt Blue Wonder motor?

Any CF in the underside, a pic would be nice.

leadfeather · Oct 25, 2008, 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dekan

Wow! Dan where do you get a 1000Watt Blue Wonder motor?

Any CF in the underside, a pic would be nice.

Dohhh! Should be 100 watts. Made the change; thanks for pointing that out.

No cf, all 1.9#, 9mm epp; just because that's what I had on hand. 1.3# might work well too, don't know if it would need some cf though.

I took lots of build photos. I'l post shortly.

leadfeather · Oct 25, 2008, 01:20 PM

Here are some build photos and the very rough plans I used to build the FireFly.

The leading edge curve was formed by sanding with my favorite tool, 120 grit drywall screen. Both leading edges were done in under 15 minutes total. Use very light pressure and let the abrasive do the work.

dekan · Oct 25, 2008, 01:28 PM

What glue did you use to laminate the leading edge Dan?

No 1.9 Eppp in the UK so 1.3 would have to do...I will have to look out for the 120 Drywall screen.....I wonder what its called in the UK

Davereap's plans would also work for the basic dimensions just shrink them a little.... http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...3&page=4&pp=10

leadfeather · Oct 25, 2008, 02:01 PM

Dave,

I used Sumo glue to laminate the KF lower surface to the main wing. I spread a very thin layer on the KF pieces with a Popsicle stick and then lay it on top of the main wing. I put a small piece of plywood on top to hold it flat while the glue sets up.

Here is a link showing the abrasive drywall screen and the tool I use it in:
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...&postcount=252

dekan · Oct 25, 2008, 02:42 PM

Dan, I don't think you can get either in the UK... but there maybe alternatives....

leadfeather · Oct 25, 2008, 05:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dekan

Dan, I don't think you can get either in the UK... but there maybe alternatives....

Any modern urethane glue should work Sumo, Gorilla etc. You could also use hot glue or the Welders/ShoeGoo/Goop tye of glues too. I think the PU's (polyurethanes) are the lightest and work well but take more time to set up.

Sanding screen...must be something equivalent in Europe?? Harbor freight sells it over here.

One note on the sanding, as it may not be obvious to some. Too much pressure causes foam gouging. Pressure is force over area. As you start to knock off a corner you must use very, very light force because the force is distributed over a small area. As the foam takes shape the sanding force can gradually increase since the force will become distributed over a larger area.

dekan · Oct 25, 2008, 05:44 PM

I have some Welder ..but I going to try 3m 90 next time I laminate Epp..

A 18"Ws might be better for the smaller venues we tend to have in the UK

leadfeather · Oct 26, 2008, 05:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dekan

I have some Welder ..but I going to try 3m 90 next time I laminate Epp..

A 18"Ws might be better for the smaller venues we tend to have in the UK

For flying in small spaces, I think the keys are (just my opinion): low air speed, good control, and small size in that order.

The key to low air speed is low wing loading, and also the ability to fly high A with good control. Adding the rudder to the SuperFly helps with the achieving better high A control. Reducing the wing loading would be easy compared to my build, but you might trade off some of the high speed ability; not necessarily a bad thing, just a choice.

Going smaller is good if you can do it without increasing the wing loading. Going smaller and lighter can add significant electronic component cost.

Here is my list of hardware I used and respective costs. I would love to be able to find smaller/lighter stuff; especially servos; at comparable prices.

24 gram motor, $8.95 , http://www.hobbycity.com/hobbycity/s...trunner_1500kv

Motor mount, $1.20, http://www.hobbycity.com/hobbycity/s...ff_Mounts_10mm

Prop, $1.20, GWS 8x4 available widely

Prop adapter, $1.99, http://www.hobbycity.com/hobbycity/s...pter_&_3_bands

ESC, $11.95, http://www.hobbycity.com/hobbycity/s...eed_Controller

Servos, $3.49 ea , http://www.hobbycity.com/hobbycity/s...ec_Micro_Servo

Reciever, $19.95, http://www.hobbycity.com/hobbycity/s..._4Ch_72Mhz_(v2)

Servo extension, $1.10, http://www.hobbycity.com/hobbycity/s...idProduct=3835

Control horns 3ea, $.19, http://www.hobbycity.com/hobbycity/s...=Pin_Horn_9x13

There is a cheaper and lighter 10A ESC, the "Supersimple", available from HobbyCity, but I haven't tried it yet. I have used the bigger version of this ESC with no trouble.

A 15 gram outrunner would probably be more than adequate for indoor flying and another good way to shave off some weight.

BTW the components listed above are also used on my Yuk54, LevJet, SloFly28, and 22" PBF.

dekan · Oct 26, 2008, 05:46 AM

Thanks for the list...If I was making an 18"WS, I would go for a 15g motor with a 6x3 GWS prop, 5g servos,6g Esc and a 8g rx.

If you use the 480mA ThunderPower 2S 23g lipos with that combination of bits 120G should be no problem

Oct 25, 2008, 11:46 AM	#5
leadfeather There's no place like foam... Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 4,861	Outdoor flying I had very nice weather this AM for flying outdoors. I threw it up in the sky and was very surprised at the speed of this little plane. Flying indoors last night I used a 2s battery to tame the power down; it just seems to use so little power for the speed it gets. 2s was plenty of power For fast flying outdoors it worked best with the battery moved forward a little. I flew it with a 500mAh 3s and also with a 1000 mAh 3s battery. In both cases, when throttled up it was a little bullet. It is by far the fastest plane I have flown powered by the Blue Wonder (100 watt) motor. Not only was it fast, it is not pitchy at speed. I hope to get some speed flying video tomorrow AM. I am very pleased with this little delta. A good aerobatic indoor flier and a good windy day flier too! All epp means this plane should be very durable. Last edited by leadfeather; Oct 25, 2008 at 12:57 PM.

Oct 25, 2008, 01:20 PM	#8
leadfeather There's no place like foam... Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 4,861	Build photos Here are some build photos and the very rough plans I used to build the FireFly. The leading edge curve was formed by sanding with my favorite tool, 120 grit drywall screen. Both leading edges were done in under 15 minutes total. Use very light pressure and let the abrasive do the work. Attached Thumbnails Basic plans. Each square = 1 inch 37.9 KB · Views: 1143 Parts cut out and ready for assembly. 64.2 KB · Views: 939 I use Welders glue for the hinges. Similar technique to the hot glue hinge. Easier, no heat involved. 68.3 KB · Views: 1106 Fin and rudder added as an assembly. 71.8 KB · Views: 1054 Chuck glider time to find the cg. This step helps ensure a successful maiden flight 65.4 KB · Views: 1278 Elevons pinned slightly up f chuck glider test. 83.1 KB · Views: 848 Motor mount and 5 gram elevon servos mounted. The servos are a snug fit in the foam and a dab of glue to keep them in place. 66.2 KB · Views: 1406 Belly of the wee beast. A servo extension is need for the 5 gram rudder servo. 76.9 KB · Views: 2329 Last edited by leadfeather; Dec 04, 2008 at 01:48 PM.

Oct 25, 2008, 01:28 PM	#9
dekan D'oh.. Dumb Left Thumb Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: London, UK Posts: 4,822	What glue did you use to laminate the leading edge Dan? No 1.9 Eppp in the UK so 1.3 would have to do...I will have to look out for the 120 Drywall screen.....I wonder what its called in the UK Davereap's plans would also work for the basic dimensions just shrink them a little.... http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...3&page=4&pp=10 Last edited by dekan; Oct 25, 2008 at 01:36 PM.

Oct 25, 2008, 05:36 AM	#2
dekan D'oh.. Dumb Left Thumb Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: London, UK Posts: 4,822	That looks really promising Dan...but all that noise...I wonder how long it would take at the indoor venues that I have flown at, before You would be asked not to fly it!

Oct 25, 2008, 11:05 AM	#4
dekan D'oh.. Dumb Left Thumb Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: London, UK Posts: 4,822	Hey I hadn't thought of that, Dan....Insist that they all build one! They can't complain then. I will be following this one, as you know, I am a fully paid up member of the Dr David Halko fan club.Lol

Oct 25, 2008, 12:30 PM	#6
dekan D'oh.. Dumb Left Thumb Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: London, UK Posts: 4,822	Wow! Dan where do you get a 1000Watt Blue Wonder motor? Any CF in the underside, a pic would be nice.

Oct 25, 2008, 02:01 PM	#10
leadfeather There's no place like foam... Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 4,861	Dave, I used Sumo glue to laminate the KF lower surface to the main wing. I spread a very thin layer on the KF pieces with a Popsicle stick and then lay it on top of the main wing. I put a small piece of plywood on top to hold it flat while the glue sets up. Here is a link showing the abrasive drywall screen and the tool I use it in: http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...&postcount=252

Oct 25, 2008, 02:42 PM	#11
dekan D'oh.. Dumb Left Thumb Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: London, UK Posts: 4,822	Dan, I don't think you can get either in the UK... but there maybe alternatives....

Oct 25, 2008, 05:44 PM	#13
dekan D'oh.. Dumb Left Thumb Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: London, UK Posts: 4,822	I have some Welder ..but I going to try 3m 90 next time I laminate Epp.. A 18"Ws might be better for the smaller venues we tend to have in the UK

Oct 26, 2008, 05:46 AM	#15
dekan D'oh.. Dumb Left Thumb Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: London, UK Posts: 4,822	Thanks for the list...If I was making an 18"WS, I would go for a 15g motor with a 6x3 GWS prop, 5g servos,6g Esc and a 8g rx. If you use the 480mA ThunderPower 2S 23g lipos with that combination of bits 120G should be no problem