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Old Oct 10, 2008, 06:31 PM
Nut Case
Almada
Joined Oct 2008
129 Posts
Discussion
wrinkled stuff -Building Junkers Aircraft

Hey there !

Ive been trying to devise a method to replicate that corrugated skin in most pre-ww2 Junkers types, but its been a tough matter to deal with. Scale spacing is difficult to judge, skin curvature is a nut-cracker, some solutions are too weak, some are too heavy, some are hard moulding trouble, ach !!

Theres just no beauty in a flat-skinned Ju-52 !!

Ive been trying to devise a way in which newspaper sheets (about 10) are glued together with white wood glue, in plywood fashion, over a flat matrix with strands of copper wire arranged in a scaleish disposition and left to dry.

After trimming it to size, these skins will be glued onto the wing/fuselage structure.

Is that stupid or just plain dumb !?

Pedro.
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Last edited by Flying Shark; Oct 19, 2008 at 06:26 AM. Reason: Misleading title
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Old Oct 20, 2008, 05:53 AM
Bi-Planes
Tim Farrar's Avatar
Houston Texas
Joined Apr 2006
1,589 Posts
I would log on to "RCSB" http://www.rcscalebuilder.com/forum/default.asp and ask what they do for the scale covering of that plane.

I could be wrong but the news paper idea sounds very heavy plus to be honnest I cant really imagin exactly what you mean.

I know the corragatted look you are talking about but I dont understand how you can get it with copper wire.

I could be wrong though, Have you got a sample picture you could post ?

Who knows, you may have come up with the best way to do it...


Seeya, Tim
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Old Oct 20, 2008, 12:48 PM
Nut Case
Almada
Joined Oct 2008
129 Posts
The way Im trying to do it is to get a flat board bigger than the wing pannel Im building and with the right gauge (nearest to scale) of copper wire lay paralel strands at the right distance fixed is some way to the board, thus making a flat "female mould".

Next step is to insulate that mould with celophane (kitchen wrap type) sheets and start laying the newspapper pages one by one, with white wood glue, while making it conform to the mould with a small brush.

When dry, gently remove it from the mould and hope for the corrugated look to be there. Laying this onto the wing structure and bending it to shape is another problem I antecipate....

The number of layers is still to be determined as I havent had the use of my workshop for a few month now ( I have to go on field trips during month, cartographing Portuguese airports ;-) ) so I havent got any pictures at the time.

Im doing some small strips of prototypes I can "study" at hotel rooms !!!

Ill keep you posted

Hasta la vista
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Old Oct 20, 2008, 02:51 PM
Bi-Planes
Tim Farrar's Avatar
Houston Texas
Joined Apr 2006
1,589 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flying Shark
The way Im trying to do it is to get a flat board bigger than the wing pannel Im building and with the right gauge (nearest to scale) of copper wire lay paralel strands at the right distance fixed is some way to the board, thus making a flat "female mould".

Next step is to insulate that mould with celophane (kitchen wrap type) sheets and start laying the newspapper pages one by one, with white wood glue, while making it conform to the mould with a small brush.

When dry, gently remove it from the mould and hope for the corrugated look to be there. Laying this onto the wing structure and bending it to shape is another problem I antecipate....

The number of layers is still to be determined as I havent had the use of my workshop for a few month now ( I have to go on field trips during month, cartographing Portuguese airports ;-) ) so I havent got any pictures at the time.

Im doing some small strips of prototypes I can "study" at hotel rooms !!!

Ill keep you posted

Hasta la vista
Please do keep us posted becuase this sounds very interesting...

If you can do it I might want to build that plane someday...lol lol lol...

The problem you are taking on now is one reason why I havnt...lol lol lol...

I wish you luck with your idea !!!


Seeya, Tim
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Old Oct 22, 2008, 05:09 PM
Nut Case
Almada
Joined Oct 2008
129 Posts
Will do, Tim

Id love to build one of them old carcasses and take it for a ride !

Ive just been admiring a DeHavilland-Canada twin otter today (A full size one, that is...) I work in Portuguese airports in infrastructure cartography so I get to walk around the real ones, so Im keeping my "libido" fed.

Check out the Santa Maria Airport in the Azores on googlearth which is where I am now. Let me tell you, its the biggest in Europe. Lots of vacant flying space (very low traffic) and no clubs around. Such a waste.

Hasta
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Old Oct 22, 2008, 05:28 PM
Bi-Planes
Tim Farrar's Avatar
Houston Texas
Joined Apr 2006
1,589 Posts
Thats cool working around planes I bet, I am just around trucks and forklifts all day...lol lol lol...
No "libido" to feed there...lol lol lol...

Ya, to bad there isnt no clubs for you because I hate to fly alone...

Flying alone isnt any fun at all I dont think...


Seeya, Tim
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Old Oct 26, 2008, 05:18 AM
Nut Case
Almada
Joined Oct 2008
129 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Farrar
Thats cool working around planes I bet, I am just around trucks and forklifts all day...lol lol lol...
No "libido" to feed there...lol lol lol...

Ya, to bad there isnt no clubs for you because I hate to fly alone...

Flying alone isnt any fun at all I dont think...


Seeya, Tim

Youre right, but still you get to be around some heavy machinery !

I took some pictures of an experiment I did with all purpose glue and ten strands of paper. On one of the photos the prototype skink is about 8 inches long one inch wide and is seen suporting the weight of two AAA type bateries.

Next step is the corrugated stuff. Still working on it...

Pedro.
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Old Oct 26, 2008, 10:30 AM
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Xanadu's Avatar
Canada, MB, Winnipeg
Joined Nov 2006
1,581 Posts
One guy used very thick monofiliment fishing line as his "corrugation lines". Gluing them into place and painting over them.
Not sure what your scale is though, so might not work.
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Old Oct 27, 2008, 08:07 PM
Bi-Planes
Tim Farrar's Avatar
Houston Texas
Joined Apr 2006
1,589 Posts
Cool !!!

I will be watching !!


Seeya, Tim
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Old Oct 29, 2008, 01:16 AM
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Chris Nicastro's Avatar
Post Falls, ID United States
Joined Feb 2004
4,336 Posts
www.airliners.net and search for JU-52 and you will see awesome photos of this surface consrtuction.

You can do this in a couple ways. You can make a tool like a rake and apply a thin coat of filler material to the wing surface, for example. With a jig fixture to guide you can drag your rake tool over the surface. Once dry you can sand and bevel edges and do some more details. The weight will be very little and you can paint over it. If the model is larger you can use strips of plastic and lay each strip down and sand the edges smooth and bevel the tips, etc. If you can find corrugated sheets thats easier but you add significant weight to the model. Best deal altogether is to make a master model with all the detail and then take a old from it and make a fiberglass flying model. That way all your work is preserved and you can make more, sell them, replace broken parts. Many different solutions to choose from.

Chris
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Old Nov 02, 2008, 03:19 AM
Nut Case
Almada
Joined Oct 2008
129 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xanadu
One guy used very thick monofiliment fishing line as his "corrugation lines". Gluing them into place and painting over them.
Not sure what your scale is though, so might not work.
Thats a great idea, since Im in the Azores Islands, thick fishing lines ARE abundant here, so Ill give it a go.

About the size ot the aircraft I like them just under Giant Scales ( The norm is that the unassembled things parts fit in my car. ( It Aint that big)).

Cheers.
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Old Nov 02, 2008, 03:26 AM
Nut Case
Almada
Joined Oct 2008
129 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Nicastro
www.airliners.net and search for JU-52 and you will see awesome photos of this surface consrtuction.

You can do this in a couple ways. You can make a tool like a rake and apply a thin coat of filler material to the wing surface, for example. With a jig fixture to guide you can drag your rake tool over the surface. Once dry you can sand and bevel edges and do some more details. The weight will be very little and you can paint over it. If the model is larger you can use strips of plastic and lay each strip down and sand the edges smooth and bevel the tips, etc. If you can find corrugated sheets thats easier but you add significant weight to the model. Best deal altogether is to make a master model with all the detail and then take a old from it and make a fiberglass flying model. That way all your work is preserved and you can make more, sell them, replace broken parts. Many different solutions to choose from.

Chris
Thats the best idea, but using fiberglass is what Ive been trying to avoid since I have no Garage I can use either for laying out moulds or for storage.
(It will change in the future since I plan on leaving the flat and moving to a suburban house with a garage).

The rake tool seems to be a good idea too, when I can Ill give it a go

Tanks and Hasta La Vista...
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Old Nov 08, 2008, 12:30 PM
My hangar is,... "almost" full
No Step's Avatar
Everett, Washington
Joined May 2003
3,955 Posts
I feel your pain. I too have been looking at the JU-52 to possibly build next winter. The major block is the skin. The task of doing the skin correctly is daunting. However, I'm almost to the point of saying the heck with it and just make it smooth skinned like all my other planes. 20 feet away it won't matter anyway. I know, what am I thinking,... but that's what I'm thinking. Duplicating the skin and keeping the weight and workload low would be too much for me. Most of the folks at my flying field wouldn't know the difference anyway. I really like the slow majestic flight characteristics of the plane, and I like the uncomplicated fixed gear, not to mention the 3 motors. Mine would be electric, ~ 75" ws. Still in the thinking stage. May get to it, may not,.. thinking about it though.

Azores: considering it for a peaceful vacation next year

Fred
https://home.comcast.net/~guilfoyle72/
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Old Nov 09, 2008, 09:04 AM
D.G.B.
KOMET 44's Avatar
Southington, Connecticut, United States
Joined Jun 2000
2,951 Posts
A while back a builder showed how he was doing the "WRINKLED Skin" on a ford tri-motor plane.Search electric scale forum ; For those who remember Baur cardboard printed models ,I have the 80"ju52 I also am interested because I have the rcm plans (96"span ) and want to build the single engine Junkers Ju that was in service in canada.

KOMET44
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Old Nov 18, 2008, 06:41 PM
Nut Case
Almada
Joined Oct 2008
129 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by No Step
I feel your pain. I too have been looking at the JU-52 to possibly build next winter. The major block is the skin. The task of doing the skin correctly is daunting. However, I'm almost to the point of saying the heck with it and just make it smooth skinned like all my other planes. 20 feet away it won't matter anyway. I know, what am I thinking,... but that's what I'm thinking. Duplicating the skin and keeping the weight and workload low would be too much for me. Most of the folks at my flying field wouldn't know the difference anyway. I really like the slow majestic flight characteristics of the plane, and I like the uncomplicated fixed gear, not to mention the 3 motors. Mine would be electric, ~ 75" ws. Still in the thinking stage. May get to it, may not,.. thinking about it though.

Azores: considering it for a peaceful vacation next year

Fred
https://home.comcast.net/~guilfoyle72/

Hey there Fred

Youre right, 20 ft away not even I would notice the thing ! But I still would like to make some dudes gaze in utter amazement as I roll it home on the runway

About the vacation, yeap, its really Zen in most places, pitoresque landscapes and you might get lucky and watch spermwhales like I saw while crossing on a small rental semi-rigid boat from Flores (Flowers) Island to Corvo (Crow/Raven) Island, this being the smallest of all. One township, +/- 400 inhabitants.

Those two are closer to Canada than they are from mainland Portugal. Santa Maria Island, where I am now was the first to be populated (theres a monument here stating the year 1432 !!). Ive been to most of the 9 islands (St Miguel is the "capital" ) and theyre all worth a trip.

Hope you enjoy it.
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