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Old Oct 09, 2008, 09:00 AM
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Cheapest heli to learn 3D?

OK - not in that sense! LOL

Premises are that there are certain number of pilots that can fly reasonably well (in the domain or aerobatics: loops, rolls, etc) but going further demands for some damage to be done.

By cheapest I do not think about initial cost of the kit itself: very expensive gyro nicely protected inside of the frame very rarely suffer at all. Similarly goes with tail servo (although it gets bashed from time to time - case get smashed usually). Expensive metal gear servos are usually better idea and much cheaper on long run. Powerful motor doesn't get killed nor ESC (although ESC contributes the least).

So - it goes up and falls down breaking. Or not. What helis in what configuration these days you would suggest to someone to start learning all the "crazy" stuff?

Kit, motor, servos, gyro + tail servo, blades, landing skids, etc...

(and argument - expensive blades will help you not to crash doesn't stand - I'll demonstrate it to anyone wanting to spare such blades! LOL).

(Ah - I know - a simulator - but question is about the real hardware)
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Old Oct 09, 2008, 10:07 AM
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brian94066's Avatar
USA, CA, San Bruno
Joined Jul 2007
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don't go cheap when you talk about 3D

cheap servos and cheap electronics WILL break down

you can get a Hurricane 550, along with the 1100kv upgrade, align 75A esc, Futaba S9252 servos for the cyclic, and the Logitech 6100 gyro/servo combo for the tail

and run that set up on 6S 2200-3300

not that cheap, but it is a very durable heli, and it's big and nimble enough for someone to learn 3D on
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Old Oct 09, 2008, 10:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brian94066
don't go cheap when you talk about 3D

cheap servos and cheap electronics WILL break down
Hm... you might not get the point. When someone like me start doing something it is usually my fault rather far before anything else. And I never said cheap servos and electronic! (on contrary I did endorse that initial price of better equipment is much cheaper long term). I am after something that is durable, crash resistant (to the extent) and cheap to *repair*!

Quote:
Originally Posted by brian94066
you can get a Hurricane 550, along with the 1100kv upgrade, align 75A esc, Futaba S9252 servos for the cyclic, and the Logitech 6100 gyro/servo combo for the tail

and run that set up on 6S 2200-3300

not that cheap, but it is a very durable heli, and it's big and nimble enough for someone to learn 3D on
So Hurricane 550 is one of the reasonable options. But are S9252 metal geared? Aren't they going to strip in crashes? What about the price of blades (in comparison to smaller 325/350 size)?
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Old Oct 09, 2008, 12:54 PM
Sure it'll work
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United States, CA, Torrance
Joined Nov 2005
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I don't know what your part avalibility is in the UK...but I got the Blade 400 as my very first heli with no regrets. The TX helped with me deside. The "Blade 400" has alot of info and support on the thread by noobs and people that have the 400 as just one in thier fleet of helis. You can upgrade fast or slow...spend a little or alot....

If you post your question in the Blade 400 Mini Heli forum/thread some might even suggest something else....

.....I have a Trex 450 SE that I got for the same reasons...part avalibility and support....seem that these are two very common helis...at least in the USA.

I can tell you this....take your time...don't get in a hurry...ask lots of questions....deside what's best for YOU.

Good Luck, Bill
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Old Oct 09, 2008, 01:34 PM
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Ok from MY personal experience, you can't go wrong with a TREX SE v2. It's the all-metal version.

I have mine with HS-65mgs on cyclic and an S9650 on tail. The metal gears do not strip (as often...I acutally did manage to strip one once). The metal head parts do not break and my average repair cost has been $25 after 6 major crashes.

Skarn
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Old Oct 10, 2008, 09:13 AM
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honey bee king 2 airframe with blades for under 30 sound nice to you? i am thinking much the same and i have 3 HBK2's 2 very bling and one to learn on also have 2 blade 400's and one trex 500 which i am building at the mo the plan is to learn new stuff on the hbk2 hone on a 400 and show off on the 500 tonnes of spares formy hbk2 all plastic then the 2 blingz only spare feathering shafts a good amount of spares for the b400's (probably 2+ of every part at least as opposed to 5+ for the hbk2) and no spares for the 500 as yet
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Old Oct 10, 2008, 09:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by n3m1s1s
...the plan is to learn new stuff on the hbk2 hone on a 400 and show off on the 500
You know, I think a lot of people with multiple heli's go about the learning process backwards IMHO. The first thought is to learn on the cheaper, less complicated heli's then when "honed" fly their larger more expensive heli's. But I think that is backwards in that the larger 500 that you have will be MUCH more of a stable platform to learn on and you won't crash as much.

I have a HBKII, Trex 450, Raptor 50 and just picked up a Trex 500. Before I got the 500, I would learn new things on the Raptor. Flying the Raptor is so much more forgiving than the smaller mini heli....I learned inverted hovering on the Raptor and am just starting to perfect it on my Trex 450. I haven't flown the 500 yet but I suspect I'll learn a lot of new things on that. The HBKII is fun for what it is, but so much more "twitchy" that I simply won't try to learn anything new on it anymore.

Skarn
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Old Oct 10, 2008, 09:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skarn
You know, I think a lot of people with multiple heli's go about the learning process backwards IMHO. The first thought is to learn on the cheaper, less complicated heli's then when "honed" fly their larger more expensive heli's. But I think that is backwards in that the larger 500 that you have will be MUCH more of a stable platform to learn on and you won't crash as much.

I have a HBKII, Trex 450, Raptor 50 and just picked up a Trex 500. Before I got the 500, I would learn new things on the Raptor. Flying the Raptor is so much more forgiving than the smaller mini heli....I learned inverted hovering on the Raptor and am just starting to perfect it on my Trex 450. I haven't flown the 500 yet but I suspect I'll learn a lot of new things on that. The HBKII is fun for what it is, but so much more "twitchy" that I simply won't try to learn anything new on it anymore.

Skarn
Ha - you almost got to the point of my post: now I've got there - I am even more scared (not why flying but outside that) - that I will start pushing my flying to the edge of my abilities as 500 class heli I bough is far more stable/powerful. And 4-5 times more expensive to fix! Crashing with MT is around 20 but Protos is 4 to 5 times as much (if we exclude ESC/servo I killed in my last/first crash).

Being more much better platform to learn I am afraid to abuse it and push it too much. And to hear what other people did/suggest as good place to start (continue) learning to fly helis.

And I am sure that 500 class is bit closer to 600 then 450

...

Now when we talking about possible crashes - crashing smaller heli is much cheaper - but is it worth to lose stability and how much will that affect your ability to progress? I am still at original question: which heli is good for bashing around?

So far: Hurricane 550, TRex, Blade and Honey Bee King 2. Others? And what setups?

(For starter - MT with metal head = huge savings - bent shaft and stripped main gear are the least damage I've done so far - bent flybar too).
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Old Oct 10, 2008, 11:21 AM
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Joined Sep 2007
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If it's a quality 450 honestly I don't see the problem, only thing I see is they get effected by wind a looooot more.

Clicky, just get a good sim and fly for real higher, your heli is one of the best.

I just practice tons on the sim and fly medium/low heights in real life.
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Old Oct 10, 2008, 12:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Technex
If it's a quality 450 honestly I don't see the problem, only thing I see is they get effected by wind a looooot more.
Quality 450 = $$$ (when crashed). No?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Technex
Clicky, just get a good sim and fly for real higher, your heli is one of the best.

I just practice tons on the sim and fly medium/low heights in real life.
See first post
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Old Oct 10, 2008, 01:01 PM
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You don't have to crash to get good :/.
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Old Oct 10, 2008, 01:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clicky
Quality 450 = $$$ (when crashed). No?
See first post
No! As I stated in my post above:

"Ok from MY personal experience, you can't go wrong with a TREX SE v2. It's the all-metal version.

I have mine with HS-65mgs on cyclic and an S9650 on tail. The metal gears do not strip (as often...I acutally did manage to strip one once). The metal head parts do not break and my average repair cost has been $25 after 6 major crashes."

So as you can see a quality trex 450 with metal parts is NOT expensive at all repair-wise!

Skarn
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Old Oct 10, 2008, 01:23 PM
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Pleasant Valley Modelport
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I had better luck learning basic 3D on smaller heli's , namely a belt tail CP2. That thing will fly circles around a larger heli and is a lot safer due to the lighter weight and soft wood blades that weigh 10g ea. The 400's and up need LOTS of power to do the stresses. The little guys like a CP2 or even the 200's and HEY ! The Align 250.
They can be EASILY overpowered with $15 batteries. How about those $70 smashed batteries ? I felt that pain before. And it stings.
So, I am saying the King V2, Align 250, modded CP2, or some of the other 200's out there. There are videos of a guy doing spectacular 3D in a garage. Do that with a 400.
But like they say, the wind is a factor. Kentucky has lots of calm days so smaller is not a problem for me.

CH

I forgot to add, fixing the heli really isn't so expensive, it the batteries that cost to replace, especially when they go postal.
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Old Oct 10, 2008, 06:12 PM
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Kyalami, South Africa
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I faced a similar quandry, and was considering the Protos as my first CP. The importer of Protos recommended I rather get a Trex 500 as a first CP, as he felt the Protos was more expensive on spares.

So bought and built the T500. Then I worried about the cost of parts if I crashed, so I bought a HBK2. I am still hovering, but have flown the T500 20 packs so far, and apart from spraying silicon on the belt, I just charge the batteries and fly. The Trex I took off and hovered the first pack for 8 minutes with just sim time and an Esky Lama practice that I bought a month earlier.

The HBK2 I have replaced 10 blade sets, 2 frames, 6 feathering shaft, the gyro, servos, 3 motors, 4 booms, blade grips, central holder, flybar holder, and I haven't had as much air time as the T500 gets.

So if I had to do it again, I would stick to the T500 only. It is far more stable. Yes the parts are more expensive, but I have probably spent over $200 on the HBKII so far which could have bought a few spares for the T500. Add to that I have probably invested 30 hours rebuilding time on the HBK. Teh fact that it comes pre built is actually a disadvantage, as it has taken some time to learn the how the head goes together.

The only problem is, I have to drive 20 minutes away to fly the Trex, whereas the HBK2 does time on my garage.

I am waiting for the Trex 250 to get launched, but may grab an SJM180 if the Trex takes too long, for flying at home.
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Old Oct 11, 2008, 01:14 AM
Sure it'll work
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United States, CA, Torrance
Joined Nov 2005
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chophop
I had better luck learning basic 3D on smaller heli's , namely a belt tail CP2. That thing will fly circles around a larger heli and is a lot safer due to the lighter weight and soft wood blades that weigh 10g ea. The 400's and up need LOTS of power to do the stresses. The little guys like a CP2 or even the 200's and HEY ! The Align 250.
They can be EASILY overpowered with $15 batteries. How about those $70 smashed batteries ? I felt that pain before. And it stings.
So, I am saying the King V2, Align 250, modded CP2, or some of the other 200's out there. There are videos of a guy doing spectacular 3D in a garage. Do that with a 400.
But like they say, the wind is a factor. Kentucky has lots of calm days so smaller is not a problem for me.

CH

I forgot to add, fixing the heli really isn't so expensive, it the batteries that cost to replace, especially when they go postal.
I power my Blade 400 and Trex 450 SE just fine with $20-$25 batts. I say the best "bang-for-the-buck" is the Blade 400. IMO
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