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Old Apr 22, 2012, 08:11 AM
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bdelapen's Avatar
United States, FL, Pembroke Pines
Joined Aug 2008
2,614 Posts
We're waiting for you

Hi DAG,

We have a spot reserved for you here at SEFF!!!

- Birger
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Old Apr 22, 2012, 08:19 AM
It only takes one good idea
dag214's Avatar
Fishers, Indiana
Joined Oct 2004
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Originally Posted by bdelapen View Post
Hi DAG,

We have a spot reserved for you here at SEFF!!!

- Birger
KEWL......

I may try to get there a day early, but I will be working a bunch from my laptop as my business has just got swamped again. Work has never been better. I have to have some way to pay for this stuff.

It is going to be very crowed there with a 21' bomber, and a 17' vintage.

Thanks, DAG
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Old Apr 22, 2012, 10:49 AM
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Doug Bartley's Avatar
Canada, ON, Owen Sound
Joined Oct 2008
2,840 Posts
Hi Dag: I haven't posted here for quite awhile, altho I look up this site every day. The pics you posted of the B36 in the garage with Emma are priceless!!
Progress is progress, work, family all has to take precedence over any hobby.
I am still amazed at every aspect of your build and will continue to watch faithfully.
Unlike others that "push" for you to "get 'er done", I wil just watch the plane reach its finish when you have the time to do it.
Looking forward to seeing the next step, and the next. Doug B
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Old Apr 22, 2012, 12:08 PM
Plane crazy
ISPYFROMABOVE's Avatar
USA, CA, Yucaipa
Joined Jul 2010
153 Posts
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Originally Posted by dag214 View Post
It is funny how we all look at flying.

People want to think at scaling a aircraft as linear which it is not. If you take a Piper 180 at 2440 (if I remember that is its max gross weight). And scaled it down to 1/4 scale the weight would not be 610 pounds. Full scale planes might have a wing incidence of 3 degrees, that way at altitude and at cruise the fuse is some what level to the ground. But a model with a light wing load may only need 1 degree. My B-36 in full scale had 3, and I choose 1.5.

As mentioned earlier many try to use flaps on RC planes. But I think many forget what flaps are really for, basically 2 things..... 1 is to give you more lift to land the plane slower, but the other that is forgotten is to get the nose at a level where the pilot can see in front of him and not have a huge AOA.

I love flaps for landing as it helps me from over rotating the fuse on landing and dragging the tail. But take offs in many ways flaps are not needed. On airliners the wings are designed for their best efficiency at altitude not for helping much at lower speeds, so the wings need a bunch of help when low and slow (LE devices, huge flap systems). But........ models have VERY light wing loads in most cases and the AOA needed to fly, and the fact model accelerate very quickly means we really don't need flaps for taking off. BUT... there may be a few exceptions.... If you have a very scale plane that has a very weak landing gear, or you are afraid of dragging the tail on take off, you may want to use 10-15 degrees... But flaps in cross winds are bad.

I quick story about when I was getting my pilots licenses. I was on my 2nd cross country when the wind started gusting to 25, if I remember correctly the piper archer has a max cross wind of 17kts. So on my first try at Metro here in Indy I could not even keep the plane on the center line once I took the crab out and started my slip. So I went around. Metro has a 15/33 runway which is stupid here in IN as it is always a cross wind, but a buddies dad of my built the airport over 50 years ago and they were land locked at the time and that was the only way they could build it back then. On my second try same thing, so I was considering just flying over to Mt Comfort (7 miles away). But I then remembered this flight instructor I had some ground school with. Old fart that was great that actually flew BUFF's a long time ago in a place far far way. Well he had said that if it is really windy try no flaps at all if it is a GA aircraft where a no flap landing won't hurt anything. So on my next attempt I greased her in. I had practiced many no flap landing in the archer and sure she seems fast and a AOA like the concord, but you can land with out them. So on some planes flaps are not really needed.........

I know 90% of you out there know this stuff, but I have gotten a few e-mails about my flaps on my F4U PZ plane. The real reason I add my flaps to that little plane was to be able to land it on a dime and get the airspeed down to a crawl for landing.

And thanks all for the great comments.

DAG
Agree 100%

I've got quite a few hours in a piper Seminole. Basically just a twin version of the Archer. Same thing, Max demonstrated x wind component of 17 KIAS. I was strugling with a significant and gusting crosswind during a long cross country flight. I had been in the seat for nearly 4 hours. I don't remember the wind speed at the moment, but I do remember the Female ATC controller in the tower calling out the wind speeds and directions every 10 or so seconds while I was on final. (I later called and thanked her for it). I chose 0 flaps for the same reason you mentioned, and older/ wiser/ more experienced pilot/ check airman/ instructor/ all around good guy once told me about it. I came in a little hot to deal with the gusts, in the PA44 blue line (and apprach speed) is 88 KIAS. I came in at about 92 with 0 flaps and held a little power in all the way to the ground. Centerline dead between the mains.

The thing with flying (and the thing that gets new folks into trouble) is that there is a certain amount of feel and a certain amount of procedure. Some of the big flight schools teach "procedures" as if they are the law of the land. ATP for example, has in their procedures for the PA44 the "Gear Down Before Landing Checklist". This is a good thing, then a call on base, "blue line, G.U.M.P.S.", then on final at 400 AGL "Gear down, Stabalized". These are good policies and procedures. However, they are not always the best course of action. Flying requires the the PIC be the PIC. Checklists and policies/ procedures are not flying the airplane and can not make the necessary decisions to guarantee a safe conclusion to a flight. Policies and procedures are usually based on a fairly solid understanding of the environment in general, but they aren't always the right thing all the time. In GA aircraft we can use a little more of our pilot's discretion when flying as long as we keep it safe. Also, on more than one ocassion, i've been flying with someone who will make his calls "blue line G.U.M.P.S., or "Gear down stabalized" without actually having the gear down, or being in a stabalized approach. They get so tied up in saying it right that they fail to understand the point of saying/ doing it. This is a common problem with some of the big flight schools. Many of the instructors are low hour, freshly minted instructors with their eyes on flying heavies. They are there to build hrs, not necessairly to instruct. Most don't have the years of flying experience to offer. Honestly, I have probably learned more about "Flying" during my checkrides than i learned aboutt flying from my instructors. They taught me the "monkey works" about making the houses bigger or smaller, but my DPE's taught me things about "flying". This is largley as a result of years of experience as a pilot. Checklists are a great tool and necessity, but they are not a replacement for good Aeronautical Decision Making.

RC guys taking off with flaps "Because thats how the big ones do it" are basically flying via check list, and a bad one. They should first understand the nature of what flaps do and why, then evaluate whether or not they need or want that particular aerodynamic trade off for their application.

Sorry for the rant.
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Old Apr 23, 2012, 06:29 AM
It only takes one good idea
dag214's Avatar
Fishers, Indiana
Joined Oct 2004
6,040 Posts
Hey all,
Got half the trailer set up yesterday afternoon (will show pics later today). Had to work until noon as I am slammed with work, and I have 3 huge projects to get done. I may leave Tuesday for SEFF and just finish the projects while there, but I plan on being there by Wednesday.

Rock On!

DAG
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Old Apr 23, 2012, 08:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dag214 View Post
Hey all,
Got half the trailer set up yesterday afternoon (will show pics later today). Had to work until noon as I am slammed with work, and I have 3 huge projects to get done. I may leave Tuesday for SEFF and just finish the projects while there, but I plan on being there by Wednesday.

Rock On!

DAG
Dag,

While I may not be going to SEFF, if you are going picking up I-75 South near Cincinnati, I'd love to gaze upon your trailer as it goes by! What's your route & eta in my area???
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Old Apr 23, 2012, 11:36 AM
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United States, ID, Rexburg
Joined Sep 2008
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In other fields I have encountered 'checklist syndrome' where someone can recite the checklist by rote but not really have any idea of what it all means. I, myself, am bad for that, and have learned to either verbally or mentally explain what and why I am doing something to make sure that it is done correctly. If I am loading a trailer; this is step one (and why I am doing it), this is step two and why it is here on the checklist, etc..
Foo
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Old Apr 23, 2012, 02:09 PM
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United States, FL, The Villages
Joined Oct 2010
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Dag, I've been lurking here for a long time. Great work on a great plane. I'm going to SEFF, as much to see your birds as anything else. Can't wait, hurry up Friday!
Don
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Old Apr 23, 2012, 06:37 PM
It only takes one good idea
dag214's Avatar
Fishers, Indiana
Joined Oct 2004
6,040 Posts
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Originally Posted by JAVMAN83 View Post
Dag,

While I may not be going to SEFF, if you are going picking up I-75 South near Cincinnati, I'd love to gaze upon your trailer as it goes by! What's your route & eta in my area???
I am going straight down 65. I will becoming back up Sunday afternoon. I will post if I want to try 75.

Thanks, Dag
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Old Apr 23, 2012, 06:40 PM
It only takes one good idea
dag214's Avatar
Fishers, Indiana
Joined Oct 2004
6,040 Posts
Well I am set for SEFF, worked all weekend to get my projects done for work, but will still need to work from the road. Not sure when I am leaving, but hope to be on the road by 4am to put me at SEFF by 4pm. We shall see...........

DAG
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Old Apr 23, 2012, 07:21 PM
Flutter-Bys are fun
Conehead's Avatar
United States, MI, Honor
Joined Dec 2005
5,111 Posts
Now that is really cool, or should I say slick. Fitting all that into the trailer. Amazing.

Your cad program and you design skills are amazing.

What a great job.

Thanks for the photos, just awesome.

Conehead
Orrin Eldred
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Old Apr 23, 2012, 07:47 PM
I'd Rather Be Flying
RCBlackSheep's Avatar
Stockton CA
Joined Feb 2009
599 Posts
That is slick. Wish I was going there too. Would love to see the B-36 in person.
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Old Apr 23, 2012, 07:55 PM
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Melbourne, Australia
Joined May 2006
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Didn't spot the PZ F4U in there, but I reckon there's still room to fit it in
Happy flying!
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Old Apr 23, 2012, 08:04 PM
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Australia, QLD, Booyal
Joined Aug 2011
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You have one sweet setup
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Old Apr 23, 2012, 08:12 PM
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Tennessee
Joined Sep 2003
2,339 Posts
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Originally Posted by dag214 View Post
I am going straight down 65. I will becoming back up Sunday afternoon. I will post if I want to try 75.

Thanks, Dag
Route after I65? I24 to I75 or I65 to Birmingham and?
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