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Old Jan 16, 2009, 06:37 AM
It only takes one good idea
dag214's Avatar
Fishers, Indiana
Joined Oct 2004
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gnats82
Angelo -

I note that too, where the wing failed on the B-29. As to loads that break the airframe, it could have been inertial and centrifugal loads with those motors hanging out there on the wing.
Just a note, if you see the high res video of the crash, you can see the wing sliding out on the wing tubs, then it fails. Look at it closely it is easy to see that the wing slid off the tubes.

Thanks, DAG
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Old Jan 16, 2009, 06:44 AM
It only takes one good idea
dag214's Avatar
Fishers, Indiana
Joined Oct 2004
6,062 Posts
Here is a pics pulled from the video, you can clearly see the wing sliding out. This type of flying was something Mac had done a ton of times, it was not over-stress of the airframe.

DAG
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Last edited by dag214; Jan 16, 2009 at 06:52 AM.
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Old Jan 16, 2009, 07:07 AM
Coy, peruser of worlds
gnats82's Avatar
Augusta, KS USA
Joined Dec 2007
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Thanks, DAG -

That clears it up for me and others.
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Old Jan 16, 2009, 07:16 AM
It only takes one good idea
dag214's Avatar
Fishers, Indiana
Joined Oct 2004
6,062 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by gnats82
Thanks, DAG -

That clears it up for me and others.
No problem, and I don't want to come off as a Know-it-all, but facts are facts. Mac has a plane strong enough to handle the way he flies it. I just wanted to make sure everyone knew that it was not a in-flight-failure, it was just forgetting to do something we have all done hundreds of times. Just this time he forgot. I had a trainer once that I had just started putting the rubber bands on, the a guy showed up with a P-51. I jumped up and looked at it, then we talked for about an hour. Then I started up my Eagle II and down the runway I went, just as I pulled up off went the wing. Broke the firewall, but she flew again.

DAG
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Old Jan 16, 2009, 08:08 AM
RCHN #150
Rickn816's Avatar
Lawrenceville, GA
Joined Nov 2007
5,997 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glennis_Aircraft
We are excited about the project - I ran across it by accident last week. We have cut many of our custom development jobs, but are still taking the ones we really want to do, and we are up to 5 this year now. I've already pulled some documentation, and we met this morning on what special steps we will take for it.

As far as the G-10, and carbon fiber etc., check this link also:

http://www.onlinemetals.com/index.cfm

Also, McMaster Carr has G10 and local plastic suppliers will also - on the W. Coast we have Interstate Plastic which carries it.

Rick: hope the heli is o.k, though about it a few times.

Dennis
Dennis,

Thanks. Yes. The problem is weather. Temp is 14 this morning. Yes, in Georgia.

Rick
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Old Jan 16, 2009, 09:55 AM
Vintage Flyer
Indiana
Joined Jan 2005
1,674 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by dag214
Here is a pics pulled from the video, you can clearly see the wing sliding out. This type of flying was something Mac had done a ton of times, it was not over-stress of the airframe.

DAG
I wonder if they secured the bolts properly that hold the wing on, and what kind of wing fastening system did this guy use?
Then again it was gas powered airplane, so how much did engine vibration play in the possible loosening of the wing fastening bolts?
The spin also placed stress on everything, so maybe a combination of things led to the failure.
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Old Jan 16, 2009, 12:00 PM
Coy, peruser of worlds
gnats82's Avatar
Augusta, KS USA
Joined Dec 2007
4,874 Posts
Ed -

Yeah, it was posted a bit earlier that the pilot/assembler left out the wing bolts. I'd guess that Mac might have gotten distracted with the atmosphere in the pit area and lost track of putting in those fasteners. I've wondered what my reaction would be to have landed the plane intact and found upon disassembly that the bolts were never in!!!?? AHHHHH....

I've done my share of competition flying and understand what a hub-bub can be in the pits at a large gathering. I remember watching a large B-29 go down during a demo at a Byron's giant scale meet in the early '80s - never did hear what the cause of the crash was. At least this one isn't such a mystery anymore.
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Old Jan 16, 2009, 12:03 PM
War Eagle!
sneasle's Avatar
United States, AL, Huntsville
Joined Sep 2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ercoupe Ed
I wonder if they secured the bolts properly that hold the wing on, and what kind of wing fastening system did this guy use?
Then again it was gas powered airplane, so how much did engine vibration play in the possible loosening of the wing fastening bolts?
The spin also placed stress on everything, so maybe a combination of things led to the failure.

As we have said, He flat out forgot to put the bolts in. The way I understand it, after it went down when he was walking out to the plane, he stuck his hands in his pockets and felt them.

Talk about an "Oh $h.t" moment.

There is a video somewhere showing assembly of the plane, you can see that the wing separates between the engines. I think there is also one of the crash where you see Hodges holding the wing bolts in his hand.


Now, Moving on, back to Dag's wonderful Monstrosity!
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Old Jan 16, 2009, 01:45 PM
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Angelo's Avatar
Chicago, IL
Joined Nov 1999
2,081 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by sneasle
As we have said, He flat out forgot to put the bolts in. The way I understand it, after it went down when he was walking out to the plane, he stuck his hands in his pockets and felt them.
For such a large investment, I'm surprised he didn't have a checklist to go through before flying. I fly hang gliders, and after assembling, we always do a thorough preflight. We check everything assembled, bolts, catches and also check for any damage, dented or bent tubing, sail damage, etc.
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Old Jan 16, 2009, 02:03 PM
HAL... Open the damn doors!
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Miramar, Florida
Joined Jul 2007
8,517 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Angelo
For such a large investment, I'm surprised he didn't have a checklist to go through before flying. I fly hang gliders, and after assembling, we always do a thorough preflight. We check everything assembled, bolts, catches and also check for any damage, dented or bent tubing, sail damage, etc.
It's a hobby, no one's life is on the line, checklist or not. Likewise he had done this many, MANY times previously. He's human, what can you say, it happens. The man likely had other things on his mind, his close friend passed away the week previous, in fact I believe this was the first time Mac flew the B-29 without his friend (Dan) at the controls of the X-1...

Jack
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Old Jan 16, 2009, 02:28 PM
It only takes one good idea
dag214's Avatar
Fishers, Indiana
Joined Oct 2004
6,062 Posts
Hi Jack!
I am getting all my webbing on tonight so I can take my out-board wing and set it with the other 2 sections.

Rock On!
DAG
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Old Jan 16, 2009, 02:33 PM
HAL... Open the damn doors!
jfetter's Avatar
Miramar, Florida
Joined Jul 2007
8,517 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by dag214
Hi Jack!
I am getting all my webbing on tonight so I can take my out-board wing and set it with the other 2 sections.

Rock On!
DAG
Dag,

Have you decided for certain on the rear motor position? I can't wait to see the full, framed plane sitting on the stands! Oh yeah, did you ever take thrust measurements?

Jack
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Old Jan 16, 2009, 03:22 PM
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Chicago, IL
Joined Nov 1999
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jfetter
It's a hobby, no one's life is on the line, checklist or not. Likewise he had done this many, MANY times previously. He's human, what can you say, it happens. The man likely had other things on his mind, his close friend passed away the week previous, in fact I believe this was the first time Mac flew the B-29 without his friend (Dan) at the controls of the X-1...

Jack
Since I don't want this to become a big, surly debate, this will be my last comment on this. Still, I feel I have to say...

Yes, it's a hobby, but to have so much time and money invested, and then to not have some procedures in place to insure safe flight, that's not good.

And you're wrong in saying no one's life is on the online, that B-29 could have easily killed somebody after it broke apart and all control was lost.

This isn't meant as a personal slam against anyone, but when you're flying something of this size and weight, you have a responsibility to do all you can to be safe. IMO, flying a beast of this size without a checklist is irresponsible.

So enough of this, Dag, any more pics?
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Old Jan 16, 2009, 03:39 PM
HAL... Open the damn doors!
jfetter's Avatar
Miramar, Florida
Joined Jul 2007
8,517 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Angelo
Since I don't want this to become a big, surly debate, this will be my last comment on this. Still, I feel I have to say...

Yes, it's a hobby, but to have so much time and money invested, and then to not have some procedures in place to insure safe flight, that's not good.

And you're wrong in saying no one's life is on the online, that B-29 could have easily killed somebody after it broke apart and all control was lost.

This isn't meant as a personal slam against anyone, but when you're flying something of this size and weight, you have a responsibility to do all you can to be safe. IMO, flying a beast of this size without a checklist is irresponsible.

So enough of this, Dag, any more pics?
I think you want to debate cause but I also think you are over-reacting a tad. First, Mac may have some system in-place, he's done this demo hundreds of times, he travels to many airshows and to-date this is the only incident I've heard of like this. Second, he doesn't fly over people, nor should you or anyone else in this hobby. Given that, unless you were to lose control all together, it's safe to say the chances of hitting a spectator are very, very slim (yes, it does happen). Mac is a great ambassador to this hobby so I don't think you should look at the negatives only here. Finally, pilots (even with a check list) have actually landed REAL planes with the gear UP, so as I said, the human element has to be accepted...

Jack
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Old Jan 16, 2009, 04:06 PM
It only takes one good idea
dag214's Avatar
Fishers, Indiana
Joined Oct 2004
6,062 Posts
So enough of this, Dag, any more pics?[/QUOTE]

Just of this, I think I may make it a control line project

I will take some pics and will post later.

One thing I think get lost in these debates. Once I had a guy take out my extra 260 just because he could not control a tail dragger, and he had is idle set way to high to keep his gas junk engine running. This same guy always flew over the crowd. He always per-flighted his planes, but then looked over everyone's shoulder questioning everything everyone did. Anything over 20 pounds to me should have a check list, but that is just me. Real planes have gone down after the CVR recorded the pilots following the list but flipping the wrong button. I think we all agree that we need to check everything before we take to the air, but sometimes things just go wrong. I see jet going over 200mph, but thats what they do. Mac was performing his stunts over a field, and when it all went wrong that is were the plane ended up. I have seen guys fly straight at the crowd only to pull up 50' out.

Guess I have said enough, just we all have to be careful who judges who, or one day someone else may take our hobby away from us.

But what about making this a control stunt .

DAG
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