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Old Jun 04, 2010, 09:24 AM
Perfect 3pt inverted landing!
teookie's Avatar
USA, AL, Huntsville
Joined Oct 2008
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daq - what kind of connector is that between your ESC's and motor's?

Thanks,

teookie
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Old Jun 04, 2010, 09:28 AM
It only takes one good idea
dag214's Avatar
Fishers, Indiana
Joined Oct 2004
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And I am a rudder guy, zero rudder used all the way thru the roll.

Dag
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Old Jun 04, 2010, 09:30 AM
It only takes one good idea
dag214's Avatar
Fishers, Indiana
Joined Oct 2004
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teookie View Post
daq - what kind of connector is that between your ESC's and motor's?

Thanks,

teookie
Anderson Powerpoles.

http://www.powerwerx.com/anderson-po...owerpole-sets/

Thanks, Dag
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Old Jun 04, 2010, 09:53 AM
Perfect 3pt inverted landing!
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Thanks.
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Old Jun 04, 2010, 09:59 AM
LBJ
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Fort Worth, Texas
Joined Nov 2007
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I don't have anything at stake here, and we all like to take our shots at what happened.

However, one thing that is not speculation is that he was left wing low immediately from liftoff. The situation got worse the longer it flew until it was no longer controllable. Final result was a departure from controlled flight.

Crossed controls? Lower power output on the left wing vs right wing? Pilot asleep at the switch? P-factor? Possibly, lowering the nose and going flatter after liftoff, especially on a complex multi-eninge bird like that could have helped? That is speculation.

I must admit, I don't seem to be able to get sound on YouTube, so might have missed something in the soundtrack.
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Old Jun 04, 2010, 10:34 AM
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I watched the video with sound. Possibly he may have had the ailerons reversed,it did not appear to have a steep angle of attack.
The theory that the left engines weren't pulling as hard as the right engines
could have been it.
Possibly was the rudder servo also reversed?
The video when blown up is too grainy too actually see the aileron and rudder positions
It was left wing low on takeoff lending credibility to the engine power theory.
Or did something come loose on the takeoff roll?
Anyway it is too bad, but I didn't see any preflight check either, or did they not show that part?
LBJ may be right, the airspeed wasnt high enough to start a turn.
In a left turn as we saw, the right wing is moving faster than the left wing. creating more lift, thus that may have contributed to the left roll and nose down we watched.
IMHO I think he should have built more airspeed in a straight ahead climb, then tried a turn.
Remember low level turns are dangerous.
But again I think Dag was correct also, a bad preflight
If it were my airplane, I'd be having someone run the engines up with the airplane secured, I'd be looking at flight control connections to see if vibration is shaking anything loose.


The real B-24s used a "Davis" airfoil on the wing and the B24s had a more high aspect ratio wing than the B-17, but a high aspect ratio wing is more efficient than a lower aspect ratio wing
But we all live with this part of the game, if you build them, you can rekit them, it's all part of the hobby!
My own personal belief no matter how small or big a model is a THOROUGH preflight is MANDATORY for safety!


Ed
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Old Jun 04, 2010, 12:19 PM
Übung macht den Meister..
Deuce's Avatar
United States, OR, Fairview
Joined Jul 2006
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B-24 Showing Left Aileron Commanded

FWIW, at 0:50 in the vid (try starting/stopping as it plays), the sun reflects off the left aileron, and it can be seen deflected for a left turn.

James
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Old Jun 04, 2010, 01:23 PM
It only takes one good idea
dag214's Avatar
Fishers, Indiana
Joined Oct 2004
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You know something else, after watching this vid a few times I noticed something I had missed every time. Look at the plane as it is coming down the runway, the pilot is standing at the other end of the field, like 100 yards away. If that is in fact the pilot the ground roll must have been 250-300 feet. Taking that into mind it is a stall. And once you start cranking in more aileron you only increase the angle of attach of the stalling wing. And he had zero rudder in there for p-factor.

IMHO it is a stall of a possible under powered plane.

TGIF, Rock On!
Dag
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Old Jun 04, 2010, 01:26 PM
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Wichita, Ks.
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Whatever happened, I hate seeing it because the B-24 is my all time favorite plane.
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Old Jun 04, 2010, 01:27 PM
"Audentes Fortuna Juvat"
Evel Knievel's Avatar
USA, GA, Macon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dag214 View Post
Forgive me if this has already been answered (this thread is huge!) but have you compared the efficiency of the APP connection with that of a regular solder joint? I have been using APP connectors for my batteries and ESC's for a while and love them but I have not tried them on the Motor and ESC before.

As always the project is amazing. Keep up the good work!

Chris
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Old Jun 04, 2010, 01:31 PM
It only takes one good idea
dag214's Avatar
Fishers, Indiana
Joined Oct 2004
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Evel Knievel View Post
Forgive me if this has already been answered (this thread is huge!) but have you compared the efficiency of the APP connection with that of a regular solder joint? I have been using APP connectors for my batteries and ESC's for a while and love them but I have not tried them on the Motor and ESC before.

As always the project is amazing. Keep up the good work!

Chris
I guess I may not understand


Are you saying that I solder my motor leads to my ESC leads???? I have never done that. I have always had some kind of connector between my ESC and motor. I have tested my APP on my B-36 mock up at 70 amps with zero problems.

Thanks, Dag
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Old Jun 04, 2010, 01:42 PM
"Audentes Fortuna Juvat"
Evel Knievel's Avatar
USA, GA, Macon
Joined Oct 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dag214 View Post
I guess I may not understand


Are you saying that I solder my motor leads to my ESC leads???? I have never done that. I have always had some kind of connector between my ESC and motor. I have tested my APP on my B-36 mock up at 70 amps with zero problems.

Thanks, Dag
With the Motor/ESC connection I have always used bullet connectors on mid size motors and solder on big setups. I don't really like the idea of solder because in my mind more material = more resistance. But you have answered my question... I think I'll be trying it on my A-60 now.

Thanks,

Chris
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Old Jun 04, 2010, 01:50 PM
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United States, MA, Boston
Joined Jun 2006
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Quote:
I think DAG alluded to something that I have seen countless times and that is reversed ailerons (failed pre-flight check). I'm not sure if this is the case or not but the one thing I will add is that I really doubt that this was a commanded turn to the left since based on the footage the pattern should be to the right as the flight line was to the left.
I firmly believe the ailerons were crossed. The pilot recognized the left wing was low, applied right stick (left bank) and panicked and kept applying more right stick thinking that would work. That take-off was a CLASSIC reponse to a reversed roll channel.

On the question of solder or connectors, I believe the best (electrically best) method would be to directly solder the leads together. If you use connectors, you'll have the resistance ( albeit VERY small) of two solder joints and the contact resistance of the connectors.

At the end of the day, in the grand scheme of things, I don't think it makes a lick of difference as the added resistance is negligible.
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Old Jun 04, 2010, 03:21 PM
Cookies Good - Bacon Better
NoMatta's Avatar
Portland, Oregon
Joined Sep 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
FWIW, at 0:50 in the vid (try starting/stopping as it plays), the sun reflects off the left aileron, and it can be seen deflected for a left turn.

James
Must agree with you James. I'm seeing the same thing. Looks like full left aileron at 50 seconds in. Way too bad.
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Old Jun 04, 2010, 04:11 PM
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I lookedat it again closely and you're right, left aileron is deflected upward
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