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Old Jan 08, 2009, 06:26 PM
War Eagle!
sneasle's Avatar
United States, AL, Huntsville
Joined Sep 2006
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I agree on that. Lots of guys have been flying them on the 47" yaks and similar planes and reporting great results (these are 2200mah 3 & 4s packs).
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Old Jan 08, 2009, 06:27 PM
It only takes one good idea
dag214's Avatar
Fishers, Indiana
Joined Oct 2004
5,643 Posts
Thanks everyone for the great comments. I really got nothing done todays but the UPS guy left me something's really cool .


Also, Hey Tim, thought maybe you got bored and went somewhere else .

The stack of props looks like a piece of modern art.

Be safe all,

DAG
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Old Jan 08, 2009, 06:31 PM
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Canada, BC, Abbotsford
Joined Jan 2003
4,593 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Draknkep
Hi Guys...



You are the first person to say that I have seen. Many guys where I fly are using them for larger EDFs, and other larger systems, and having no problems at all with lack of power...

As to longevity...if you pay less than half for them compared to what you pay for others, but only get 2/3- 3/4 of the cycles out of them, you are still ahead...

The only negative thing I have heard is that the fake "deans" plugs can melt at high loads and therefore high heat...but Deans plugs are cheap....change them first...no problems.

SteveT
I'll be sure to change out the plugs when I order some for my project.
Not quite as grandiose as Dag's but I still don't want the plugs melting.
Rick
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Old Jan 08, 2009, 06:33 PM
Registered User
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Canada, BC, Abbotsford
Joined Jan 2003
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dag214
The stack of props looks like a piece of modern art.
DAG
Nah:
They are lined up nice and even.
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Old Jan 08, 2009, 06:34 PM
It only takes one good idea
dag214's Avatar
Fishers, Indiana
Joined Oct 2004
5,643 Posts
Want to know my 2 cents on the battery thing?

Well if you are still reading I guess you do. So far I have reached out to 3 battery companies here in the states, so far not one of them has replied to my e-mails, I guess they think they cost to much. But what is really cool is I have had many great dealers reach out to me and ask me what kind of help do I need. One day I will post a list of all these great dealers, but if you ever see me at the flying field I might tell you about the bad ones. But most of the time I don't need to say anything about the bad ones, because everyone ends up finding out anyway.

Just want to make one thing clear if Booma RC is a Battery company there is one, they have been great at helping me with my A123 set-up.

Rock On!

DAG
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Old Jan 08, 2009, 06:48 PM
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Winnipeg, MB Canada
Joined Jan 2000
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crashnburned
Impressive video. The "Aluminum Overcast" will still be awesome in the next century. Tex,
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Old Jan 08, 2009, 10:54 PM
Use the 4S Luke
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USA, TX, Euless
Joined Aug 2003
9,320 Posts
I just bought 2 more Zippy 6S 5000's for my 57" SHP. The Hacker A60L is very happy on 12S and at only $75 each, the price is right. I need to check my amps but after 8min or so they are just warm. Probably 75A WOT and avg more like 30A.
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Old Jan 08, 2009, 11:10 PM
HAL... Open the damn doors!
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Miramar, Florida
Joined Jul 2007
7,939 Posts
The issue with LiPo cells is they change too often, there is little longevity data regarding any one brand or chemistry because they come out with a new chemistry or density before you can get enough test cycles. I do recommend FlightPower, because I have 4+ years with them and not a single failure under normal use. Now I know they are seen as expensive, at least more so than some of the competition but you get consistency for that higher price.

Like anyone else trying to build the best packs (Thunder Power at the time), they were smart enough to hook up with the best cell manufacturer, Enerland. They maintain that relationship today, exclusively using Enerland cells, some figures as high as 50,000 per month. I believe it's because of this that almost all of my 3 and 4 year old packs are still in service, at 90%+ performance. I'm the kind of person that sticks with what works but it has proven a good choice in the long run.

Unlike ANY other brand out there except Thunder Power, FlightPower has years of history so be careful when folks say "just as good" because there is a lot more to a good LiPo cell than initial performance, after all longevity is the only way us e-fliers end up ahead in the end. So while some may think it an elitest attitude to use expensive (still within 15% of the other major competitors), I think the folks claiming "just as good" status need to put in excess of 200 cycles on those packs and keep them for a few years before making that claim.

Rarely in life do you get more than what you pay for, this holds true for LiPo's...

Jack
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Old Jan 09, 2009, 03:08 AM
I fly, therefore, I crash!!!
SteveT.'s Avatar
San Jose, CA
Joined Jan 2008
24,937 Posts
Hi Jack...

I can certainly find no fault in anything you are saying... however..

I like to charge all my packs at home the day/evening before I go flying, and I like to have enough packs for each plane I take to the field to be able to fly each one two to three times, without recharging them. Right now, all of my packs are Thunderpower V2 extremes. But, I find that my discretionary funds are beginning to dwindle as of late,(as I am sure it is doing for many people these days), so cutting back some ways may have to be done.

So....since right now, I am working on getting everything I need to finish up an Aero-works 90-1.20 size Yak 54, which I am converting to electric power, and I am going to have to buy batteries for it soon, I am certainly looking at buying Zippy or even Rhino (which I have also heard some fairly good things about) packs. This plane will fly on 10S and for me to purchase 6 Thunderpower 5000mAh 5S packs (at $289.99 each) to be able to make up three flight packs, it would cost me..$1739.94. I can buy six Zippy H series packs (at $105.41 each) for $632.46, or six Rhino 4900mAh 5S (at $64.76 each) packs for $388.56.

My friend....I would have to be flying competition before I would spend almost three times or even 4.5 times as much for the Thunderpower batteries for this plane.

Dag is going to have six motors going, so even if he only ran on 4S for each motor..he would still be spending $1439.94 for Thunderpower batteries....OUCH!!! 8S for each motor....$2879.88 OUCH...OUCH...OOOOOUUUUUCCCCHHH!!!!!

And last but not least...though I am quite sure that Dag does want his batteries to last, due to the nature of this plane, it will probably never be flown three times a day, two or three days (or more)a week like some of my planes are (I`m fortunate enough to live in San Jose, Ca. where flying year round is not too big of a problem.)

As to the chemistry of batteries...when I used to race RC cars using Nicad batteries, the rule was to never charge/use a battery more than once a day. I am curious as to whether this holds true with Lipo batteries?? I do know you shouldn`t recharge a Lipo pack until it has reached ambient temperature (or lower in the summer).

Sorry Dag...this is your thread (and a great one it is too), and it is about your plane, so, I`ll shut up now.

SteveT
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Old Jan 09, 2009, 05:29 AM
"NAVY CHIEFS"
rc_man1's Avatar
NAF Atsugi, Japan
Joined Jul 2005
628 Posts
DAG,
I need a fix.... Give me More......

Mike
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Old Jan 09, 2009, 06:12 AM
HAL... Open the damn doors!
jfetter's Avatar
Miramar, Florida
Joined Jul 2007
7,939 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Draknkep
Hi Jack...

I can certainly find no fault in anything you are saying... however..

<snipped quote to conserve space>

SteveT
Steve,

Like anyone else, I don't like the idea of wasting money, in fact I wanted to find out about the "cheap" Chinese packs because I too questioned the legitimacy of "high priced" LiPo's. I purchased 2 Hextronic 6S 4100's from Hobby City, setup a thread and methodically started testing them. I got up to 20 cycles and I was starting to state that so far, as good as anything I've flown before. I had some interest in the thread, folks were curious as I was and it seemed to be going well.

One day, after pausing about 2 months during testing because of "real life" intervening, I noticed that the packs were puffed! Just sitting there in storage (no particular storage protocol used, I do not believe in anything other than storage under A/C, minimum heat). I couldn't believe it, I posted the results and folks either said "yep, cheap means cheap" or "perhaps you just got a bad run, even TP has had bad cells/packs".

Yes, correct, even TP is famous for their run of bad packs but it was at that point when I realized I was chasing a phantom. By then Hextronic had changed to Zippy (don't get me started on the Chinese naming and brand swapping!) and I couldn't even be sure that I could get the same packs to re-start my testing. In the end I realized my time was worth more than having to question my LiPo's, it was the consistency of FlightPower that up until then, I had taken for granted. I had packs with 200+ cycles, my cost/flight was already below $2.

I don't have the answers about all LiPo's but I do have 4+ years of serious cycles. I don't prep my batteries for storage, I simply charge and fly, sometimes the night before, sometimes after flying and waiting a week. My packs sit for MONTHS without me using them in some cases and never have I had a FlightPower pack puff or otherwise fail. This may be luck but I have more than 20 packs, various sizes and chemistries, if it's luck then I don't want to break the string! Again, just my own experience, I'm not trying to say I have proof or know something others don't, unfortunately LiPo's are like black box magic and the manufacturers do this to us on purpose...

Jack
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Old Jan 09, 2009, 06:49 AM
It only takes one good idea
dag214's Avatar
Fishers, Indiana
Joined Oct 2004
5,643 Posts
Hey all,
Was a late night again last night.

First I attached pics of the right out-board wing with the CF tape laminated to the spars. I have to say this is really going great.

Second the news is not as great. The prop hubs I got from zinger has a lot more mass than I had figured for, so any out of alignment of the machining is going to really create unwanted vibrations. I have learned everything I have about machining from books and trial and error. When I drill out the center of my tubing on my shafts to tap for my 8mm stud I seem to always have just a small amount of slop. I am making the new shafts tonight and we will see how it goes. The long 28” nacelle #3&#4 shafts will be aluminum, but the rest will be CF (I think).

I do have to thank Zinger though, they got my props perfect, and to me very quickly, their customer service is great, but I did put the poor gal thru heck when I asked her questions about a 14-20, she says we don’t make that prop, I said you just sent my 6, she then put me on hold and it hit me that I meant 20-14, she came back on the line and I told her she must have thought I was crazy.

Take care all and thanks for the support.

And one thing I want to make clear, earlier when I stated that I had reached out to some battery company’s I was looking for help on how their batteries preformed and what type I needed, not a free hand out, so far all the dealers and manufactures that I have gotten support have given my great support, but nothing free (yet). I budgeted $8,000.00 for this plane; I am at 80% of my budget. When I make a final decision on the batteries it may be budget driven. A great guy named Jim Spice of Coptercptn Sales in Illinois has set my up with a charger and 2 4 cell Air thunder batteries for me to test and see what I think. So far Mike and Sean at Hacker, Scott Sanford of Airland Hobbies, Jim Spice of Coptercptn Sales, Rick Gell of Booma-RC, and Bill at Hobbytown USA in Indy has given me 150% great support (I may have missed someone, sorry send me a pm and I will give you the credit you deserve).

Be safe all,

DAG
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Old Jan 09, 2009, 07:02 AM
got any foam to bash?
Tom Hunt's Avatar
Lake Grove,LI, NY
Joined Aug 2000
5,269 Posts
DAG

Some great work so far! I do take a bit of exception to your mechanical vibration test though. If you are not going to build up a "full" representive nacelle and partial stub wing, the testing of the bearings and shafting is moot.

The whip motion you are seeing is beacuse your "test" model is way to "soft" from the mid bearing to the prop bearing. You not testing your bearing here.... you're testing an unrepresentive structure.

I really don't think you are going to see a problem with a single engine installation. Things can get very "weird" when you get all three motors humming in the final vehicle on one side. THen...... the problem may not even rear it's ugly head in the ground! You may only "see" it in the air!

Keep going... looks great!

Tom
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Old Jan 09, 2009, 07:14 AM
It only takes one good idea
dag214's Avatar
Fishers, Indiana
Joined Oct 2004
5,643 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Hunt
DAG

Some great work so far! I do take a bit of exception to your mechanical vibration test though. If you are not going to build up a "full" representive nacelle and partial stub wing, the testing of the bearings and shafting is moot.

The whip motion you are seeing is beacuse your "test" model is way to "soft" from the mid bearing to the prop bearing. You not testing your bearing here.... you're testing an unrepresentive structure.

I really don't think you are going to see a problem with a single engine installation. Things can get very "weird" when you get all three motors humming in the final vehicle on one side. THen...... the problem may not even rear it's ugly head in the ground! You may only "see" it in the air!

Keep going... looks great!

Tom
Thanks Tom,
It is really funny, I just mentioned the retailers that have supported me with great info , but forgot the other great people, you have helped greatly with educating me in the beginning of looking for the proper KV.

Last night I started setting up my test cell to have more support where the spars would be holding the rib, or at least try to recreate it better.

Another thing I am trying to figure out, it looks like I am turning a lot more RPM's than I should, I wonder with such a big hub and less prop area if this 20-14 is really putting the load on the Hacker that a 20-14 without the hub would be. With 6 cells I am getting about 5900 rpm, at least that is what my Jeti box is saying, I might have it set wrong, not sure. I am going to get a rpm meter and see what she is really turning. But with 6 cells I should only be seeing about 3900rpm.

Thanks Tom,

Damon
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Old Jan 09, 2009, 07:22 AM
It only takes one good idea
dag214's Avatar
Fishers, Indiana
Joined Oct 2004
5,643 Posts
All,
One other thing,
When my final assembly bench is complete I will be able to test run all six motors at once in the wing. It won't show me what is happening in the air, but it will show what 6 motors turning at once will do setting on the ground at full power.

Thanks all,
DAG
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