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Old Oct 13, 2008, 11:43 AM
It only takes one good idea
dag214's Avatar
Fishers, Indiana
Joined Oct 2004
6,005 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by TRWXXA
Hey Dag!

Can't wait to see the completion of this project. Where do you fly, Muncie? I'm over in Zionsville and would love to see it fly in person.

Ed,

I like your Mustang (and your B-17 ). I have a '93 SSP that I enjoy playing with.
I am really hoping to get this in the air next summer, just depends on how far I get with the powerplants. I fly at Muncie with my big planes, just the place get busy in the summer. Wish I had a place to fly at as a alternate. With the wing loading this bird won't need to big of a field to fly at. When I get to the point of test flying, the more the merrier .

Thanks, DAG
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Old Oct 13, 2008, 03:41 PM
Vintage Flyer
Indiana
Joined Jan 2005
1,674 Posts
Hi Dag!
Yeah buddy, charging those Lipos up takes a week! LOL!
I applied to our Govt for a BAILOUT LOAN to buy them!!!
Got in early before all this mess in Washington, only took a couple million to buy them.
You should see those ESC's too!!!! LOL!

Ed





Quote:
Originally Posted by dag214
Hey Ed,
Great to see you here.

Well I did think about making one close to that size, but the 6,955 LiPo packs were to hard to charge LOL, and the 30hp 3 phase 480 motor would not swing my 3 blade 19' prop.

I do have some news though, I have re-scaled my Balsa Overcast back to 258" It will take me about 3 weeks to get the nacelles re-designed around in-runner motors, but fuse work will start this week end .

The 1919 had some problems that seemed to go away once I got the wings on, but if she never flies I might see if the EAA museum would want it.

Is that the 17 that was at Purdue and Mt. Comfort?

Take care,

DAG
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Old Oct 14, 2008, 04:26 PM
Put a bigger motor on it!
gtfreeflyer's Avatar
Costa Mesa, CA
Joined Feb 2007
1,421 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by dag214
I will post more of the 3D renderings, what is vrey cool is every part I have drawn gets put into a 3D model then I build it in 3D, if the parts fit in 3D then they will fit when I cut the kit out of wood.
DAG
Good luck! I'm a design engineer and this statement is definitely not always true! Are you laser cutting parts or are you just going to cut one by one?
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Old Oct 14, 2008, 04:47 PM
It only takes one good idea
dag214's Avatar
Fishers, Indiana
Joined Oct 2004
6,005 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by gtfreeflyer
Good luck! I'm a design engineer and this statement is definitely not always true! Are you laser cutting parts or are you just going to cut one by one?
What part is not true?

I also have been engineering plane for many years, I have built both full scale aircraft and this monster. Everything I have ever design either in solid works or Max 3Ds has alway fit 110% perfect . If it is drawn 1 to 1 and plotted 1 to 1 how can the parts not fit? If I were to do a real bad job of cutting it might take a hammer, or if I don't input the correct scale if laser cutting I might have problems, The parts on 55% Pitts S-1 fit like a glove, same with my 181" B-29. I have never had a problem with parts fitting if drawn right and then plotted correct, and then cut correct.

I have drawn over 10 planes to date with Max 3Ds alone and so far so good.

My next project is a 195" T-28

Cheers,

DAG
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Old Oct 14, 2008, 06:05 PM
Vintage Flyer
Indiana
Joined Jan 2005
1,674 Posts
Hi Dag!
Hey let's collaborate and do an Ercoupe! LOL!

Ed
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Old Oct 14, 2008, 06:19 PM
It only takes one good idea
dag214's Avatar
Fishers, Indiana
Joined Oct 2004
6,005 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ercoupe Ed
Hi Dag!
Hey let's collaborate and do an Ercoupe! LOL!

Ed
Hey Ed,
I think we will have to do it with rudder peddles. It would be 200% and that way we could put a radial in it.

It is funny, I have met a few people out there that say they have problems getting stuff to fit after designing it in 3D, I have employed engineers in the past and if they could get the parts to fit using 3D software I would fire them.

The T-28 has 895+ parts, and most will fit fine, now if I missed where an air hose goes I might have to open up a bulkhead, my B-29 had 1560+ parts and work perfect. I think many people miss the fact that good 3D drawings have many layer, on my B-36 I have a layer for just about every system, and a layer for every structure at this point I have over 65 layers. It might take me months to design, but in the end the build goes very fast.

I still have to get up north and see your plane and FBO.

DAG
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Old Oct 14, 2008, 06:58 PM
Bi-Planes
Tim Farrar's Avatar
Houston Texas
Joined Apr 2006
1,589 Posts
Hi guy's, I am here watching and reading but I cant contribute yet...lol lol lol...

I do think the belt drive is a good idea but you all have already come to that conclusion anyway...lol lol lol...

I do admire you Dag for the fact that you are so willing to start over for a better idea, Which is the right thing to do but I am lazy I guess because I will think of something and stick to it even if its wrong because I dont want to start over...lol lol lol...

I guess I am joking a little but I do hate to start over...lol lol lol...


Seeya, Tim
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Old Oct 14, 2008, 07:13 PM
It only takes one good idea
dag214's Avatar
Fishers, Indiana
Joined Oct 2004
6,005 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Farrar
Hi guy's, I am here watching and reading but I cant contribute yet...lol lol lol...

I do think the belt drive is a good idea but you all have already come to that conclusion anyway...lol lol lol...

I do admire you Dag for the fact that you are so willing to start over for a better idea, Which is the right thing to do but I am lazy I guess because I will think of something and stick to it even if its wrong because I dont want to start over...lol lol lol...

I guess I am joking a little but I do hate to start over...lol lol lol...


Seeya, Tim
Hey, Tim

Yep starting over is a real pain.
The airfoil on this plane is a NACA 63(420)-422 for the root, and a NACA 63(420)-517 for the tip. This is a very thick wing, but every time I change anything in the wing it makes something else not fit. Gearing the motors and shaft driving the props won’t be nearly as hard as I had thought. The problem is that the wing has a 3 degrees incidence, this make fitting everything in the wing tricky because the prop shaft has to exit the cord line. So when I went from the motors at the trial edge it made me have to go back and completely lay the ribs out again, that means all of my systems, landing gear, flap actuators, wing tubes, wiring harness, speed controllers, air system, and batteries have to be relocated to keep my CG moments correct to hit my target weight. I will tell you the math that has gone into this project is un-real.

I am building a engine nacelle for testing the shafting, when I get it cut out I will take some pics, though next week I am traveling for my business and won’t get much done.

Thanks,

DAG
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Old Oct 14, 2008, 07:29 PM
Tree? That's a Tx weed!
crashsiegel's Avatar
Central Texas
Joined Apr 2003
2,434 Posts
Dag,
Tom Hunt of www.modelairtech.com has a lot of experience with large belt drives. I used a couple of his for a few years. Unfortunately, I don't see them on his web site anymore (guess outrunners did them in). But you could talk to him, he is a very helpful and a great guy.

If you look inside the clear cowls on P109 and P131 at this link you will see examples of his belt drives:
http://www.modelairtech.com/sport.html

Hope this helps,
Crash
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Old Oct 14, 2008, 08:58 PM
Vintage Flyer
Indiana
Joined Jan 2005
1,674 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by dag214
Hey Ed,
I think we will have to do it with rudder peddles. It would be 200% and that way we could put a radial in it.

It is funny, I have met a few people out there that say they have problems getting stuff to fit after designing it in 3D, I have employed engineers in the past and if they could get the parts to fit using 3D software I would fire them.

The T-28 has 895+ parts, and most will fit fine, now if I missed where an air hose goes I might have to open up a bulkhead, my B-29 had 1560+ parts and work perfect. I think many people miss the fact that good 3D drawings have many layer, on my B-36 I have a layer for just about every system, and a layer for every structure at this point I have over 65 layers. It might take me months to design, but in the end the build goes very fast.

I still have to get up north and see your plane and FBO.

DAG
A BIG ROUND ENGINE!!! in an Ercoupe!!!
Yeahhh buddyyyy!!!! LOL!!

I happen to know where there is a 28 cylinder Pratt & Whitney setting at just across the airport from my hangar.
Think it would have enough power? LOL!!!
In reality IT IS the spare engine for the Howard Hughes Flying boat.
It was donated to the airplane museum in Auburn.
I do admire your work Dag!
I'm one of those OLD CURMUDGEONS who still uses Exacto knives,Elmers glue. epoxy sometimes, and puts an airplane together piece by piece instead of pulling it out of a box already put together.
Sometimes I even scratch build, like I said I'm an ancient dinosaur type, who also uses scroll saws, band saws, radial sanders, for making my own parts, and pins and vises for assembling an airplane.

Ed
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Old Oct 15, 2008, 04:44 AM
It only takes one good idea
dag214's Avatar
Fishers, Indiana
Joined Oct 2004
6,005 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by crashsiegel
Dag,
Tom Hunt of www.modelairtech.com has a lot of experience with large belt drives. I used a couple of his for a few years. Unfortunately, I don't see them on his web site anymore (guess outrunners did them in). But you could talk to him, he is a very helpful and a great guy.

If you look inside the clear cowls on P109 and P131 at this link you will see examples of his belt drives:
http://www.modelairtech.com/sport.html

Hope this helps,
Crash
Crash,
Thanks a ton. I seemed to be having bad luck finding anyone who wants to help me on my motor set-up. I sent 2 e-mails to Neutronics and have not heard anything yet, I did leave a message for Steve Neu, I hope he calls me back. I have used the Neutronics motor calculator, and ElectriCalc and think I am getting close.

ElectricCalc says that I need a Neu 1509/2Y with a 6.7to1 gearbox. And with a 4cell LiPo at around 4100 MAH I will get a good cruise of around 12 minutes turnning a 20" 3 blade prop.

I think I may just have to build my own belt drive system and experiment with motors. I will try to get in touch with Tom Hunt and see if he can guide me in the right direction.

This is great info, thanks.

DAG
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Old Oct 15, 2008, 04:48 AM
It only takes one good idea
dag214's Avatar
Fishers, Indiana
Joined Oct 2004
6,005 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ercoupe Ed
A BIG ROUND ENGINE!!! in an Ercoupe!!!
Yeahhh buddyyyy!!!! LOL!!

I happen to know where there is a 28 cylinder Pratt & Whitney setting at just across the airport from my hangar.
Think it would have enough power? LOL!!!
In reality IT IS the spare engine for the Howard Hughes Flying boat.
It was donated to the airplane museum in Auburn.
I do admire your work Dag!
I'm one of those OLD CURMUDGEONS who still uses Exacto knives,Elmers glue. epoxy sometimes, and puts an airplane together piece by piece instead of pulling it out of a box already put together.
Sometimes I even scratch build, like I said I'm an ancient dinosaur type, who also uses scroll saws, band saws, radial sanders, for making my own parts, and pins and vises for assembling an airplane.

Ed
Ed,
I will make some time this winter to get up there and see that engine. I too still used the caveman tools. Wish I had a CNC router. But most of my parts come from a bandsaw, jigsaw, and belt sander.

DAG
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Old Oct 15, 2008, 10:07 AM
Vintage Flyer
Indiana
Joined Jan 2005
1,674 Posts
Hi Dag,
Would it be difficult to build a CNC router?
The reason I ask, I have a freind of mine who is an ex-IT computer specialist
and also an excellent carpenter and very knowledgeable on power tools and actually designed a unique router attachment for table saws and is presently seeking a patent on it.
I would think between the 3 of us, you, I and him, we could come up with something.
I have a set of plans for a CNC foam cutter, but havee never built it

Ed
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Old Oct 15, 2008, 01:27 PM
It only takes one good idea
dag214's Avatar
Fishers, Indiana
Joined Oct 2004
6,005 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ercoupe Ed
Hi Dag,
Would it be difficult to build a CNC router?
The reason I ask, I have a freind of mine who is an ex-IT computer specialist
and also an excellent carpenter and very knowledgeable on power tools and actually designed a unique router attachment for table saws and is presently seeking a patent on it.
I would think between the 3 of us, you, I and him, we could come up with something.
I have a set of plans for a CNC foam cutter, but havee never built it

Ed
Ed,
There are kits out there for making a CNC router and they look simple, 2 axis is about 4k, the pro built one can be over 20k .

I saw one once cut out a bunch of ribs, it was very cool.

DAG
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Old Oct 15, 2008, 02:54 PM
Fly DW foamies!
appleflyer's Avatar
longmont, CO
Joined May 2006
1,285 Posts
so how far have you gotten on the B-36D? all ive seen for far are pics of the 3D animations.
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