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Old Sep 28, 2008, 04:10 PM
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After reading some posts here and different points of views I think acceptable conditions depend on the eye of the beholder. For some people acceptable might be a tent and cooking utensils, but for others ease of transportation, hotels, etc are important as well.
This may be the case but considering the organisers took something like 15-20,000 Euro in entry fee, it is reasonable to expect more than 2 shallow dug toilets and some leaky food tents. Generally the location have had a range of accomodation options available so people have been able to chose what they find acceptable. From what I heard the std was pretty low considering the price.
I also get the feeling that everyone of the regular W/C attenders want better.

Steve/Chuck,
Good luck with your negotiation with the AMA, I believe many are looking forward to attending a W/C in Muncie.
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Old Sep 28, 2008, 04:22 PM
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Just read the thread, and it is quite interesting.

I have stayed at Prolisak twice before - in 1988 and again in 1998. (both times for F2 W/C)

It is nice to read that their high standards have been maintained for the last 20 years
Did they do the towel count when you checked out and try to bill you for missing ones (that you never had in the first place)?

Why didn't they fly at Chaika, which is just a few kilometers from the Prolisak?
http://maps.google.ca/maps?hl=en&q=k...66004&t=h&z=15


Pat MacKenzie
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Old Sep 28, 2008, 05:13 PM
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Steve, are you being straight with us? I have you on record as saying the hotel was a "dump" and we know that you changed to a better one after you arrived. Many of us did not have the time or the money to do likewise!

May and I were ill for a week after the event, just now recovering. Even Mark, one of the young ones, was ill and off work for a day after returning. As Hanger-on says the event is not just for the pilots, and even they will be fewer in number, thus compromising the future of the event, if better facilities are not provided.

Remember that the German F5D team refused to come. It is sad to have to say that they were right.
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Old Sep 28, 2008, 06:00 PM
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Hang on, I thought the German F5D team chickened out due to the changes in rules / limiter issues? Did they not come due to the venue? Wow, that is shocking!

Seems like Turkey and the F3J event turned much better. I would be up for that, my girlfriend is Turkish. On a side note, I had to take a rain check on seeing her in favour of Kiev. Not sure when I will see her again next as I have no leave left and she is back to study in Ankara. Let's hope that this decision is not going to backfire as it will mean the end of team Holland. There is only so much I can cope with.

Chuck, does the AMA need any convincing? Is that the biggest problem for Munchie?

Joe
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Old Sep 28, 2008, 07:02 PM
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This thread needs a video. Something that shows the good, the bad and the knarly.

Perhaps something we can all look back at, have a laugh, and then move on.

Humm, maybe our "it girl" is up to a challenge?
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Old Sep 28, 2008, 07:21 PM
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I will post some video, however its more brief fan magazine style interviews with some of the competitors.

I've stayed at many hotels ranging from "hippy doss houses" outside the Vondel park in Amsterdam circa 1973 through to the Palace at NY or the Ritz Carlton at Marina Del Rey, or the Imperial in Tokyo. I've also attend the last 3 WC, once as a spectator and twice as a competitor.

Its no disrespect to Kiev or the Ukraine to be critical of the organisation. I spent 3 weeks touring Eastern Europe before Pitesi, and its clear this time was less fun than the previous two. The weather was a factor but so were other things. Even in Pitesti there was a choice of at least three hotels each of which was considerably superior to Prolisok.

The very existence of this thread speaks for itself, you don't find experienced travellers and competitors complaining without a reason.

What hotel have you been at recently where to ask for another carton of juice at dinner caused a 20 minute stand up discussion? What hotel have you been at where you can't even buy a cup of instant coffee after 9 am in the morning?

This comp was organised in such a way that there was no choice in where to stay, and a long drive was required to the field, and the field had minimal, to put it kindly, amenities. Its blindingly obvious that's not a recipe for fun.

York had a 20X more accomodation options.
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Old Sep 28, 2008, 07:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by George Shering
Steve, are you being straight with us? I have you on record as saying the hotel was a "dump" and we know that you changed to a better one after you arrived. Many of us did not have the time or the money to do likewise!

May and I were ill for a week after the event, just now recovering. Even Mark, one of the young ones, was ill and off work for a day after returning. As Hanger-on says the event is not just for the pilots, and even they will be fewer in number, thus compromising the future of the event, if better facilities are not provided.

Remember that the German F5D team refused to come. It is sad to have to say that they were right.
George--we voted with our feet and left for a nicer hotel--others could have done the same if desired. Yes the main hotel was a dump--but we have had to stay in places earlier WCs that were no better. I recall the Czech WC as one place that had rather "plain" accomidations. It was a former secret police training school. We were up 4 or 5 flights of stairs with planes and car batteries every night because the elevator had been broken. I also recall a meal where one of our party had a rather large beetle in his desert--hmmm.

The point is that if we had had reasonable weather conditions all these other problems would have still been with us but much lower in our collective memories. Take things as they happened and try to keep the good parts.

FYI none of use suffered ant ill effects from our stay in Kiev--I was back at work the day after I got back home. I might have felt worse if I had come home to a wet and cold place like some did

Steve
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Old Sep 28, 2008, 11:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pmackenzie
Why didn't they fly at Chaika, which is just a few kilometers from the Prolisak?

Pat MacKenzie
Chaika has a local reputation for having bad interference on 35 Mhz. The US team practiced there with with one person flying on 35 Mhz. But the organizer warned everyone else not to fly there.

Chuck
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Old Sep 28, 2008, 11:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jjmouris
Chuck, does the AMA need any convincing? Is that the biggest problem for Munchie?

Joe
Joe,

We just need to convince AMA that we can put the organizational pieces together.

Chuck
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Old Sep 28, 2008, 11:43 PM
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Coming soon to a thread near you

Dave,

Bring on the video. I can't wait :-)

Silvia is working on a slide show; it's definitely a "chick flick", so grab your significant other and enjoy her slant on the "experience". She getting (stealing) some final pics from Bruce as we speak.... It'll be her first post and likely placed in the "2008 WC - on the road thread", as she wants to have that as sort of a time capsule to look back on.

Eric
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Old Sep 29, 2008, 02:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David H
the organisers took something like 15-20,000 Euro in entry fee, the AMA, I believe many are looking forward to attending a W/C in Muncie.

i did not know that.
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Old Sep 29, 2008, 03:59 AM
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Yes, also 150 people or there abouts will generate 100.000 euro upwards with the prices they carged us. Ei, 75 euro a night for a single occupied room. This included a pancake with fish for dinner, microwaved sandwedge or two for breakfast and lunch.

Eric, bring it on!

Chuck, another reason to go 2.4Ghz. I flew there with David and he did have some problems. But also did a few rounds with his #1 plane without a glitch. Same as the competition site then.
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Old Sep 29, 2008, 09:30 AM
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Steve is referring to my infamous "Plum Surprise" desert that, if I'm not mistaken, was given to me by Dan Voz. I think Czech still goes down in my book as one of my favorite WC. I think the Brits above us and Dan/Myself made life harder with all of the practical jokes as we worked till 3am fixing things.

It's a tough game going to these WC and so you hope for a well organized event in a good atmosphere. Otherwise you hope you can make the best of the situation. I just got back from the desert where it was 106F peak temp. It was a guy's trip with no kids. We had a great time. Considering the weather, it would have been much tougher with kids and wives. The next family trip will be much cooler. 450HP sand-rails flying off sandy peaks and giant scorpions walking through the camp. Good times!
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Old Sep 29, 2008, 01:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sneu
George--we voted with our feet and left for a nicer hotel--others could have done the same if desired.

FYI none of use suffered ant ill effects from our stay in Kiev--I was back at work the day after I got back home. I might have felt worse if I had come home to a wet and cold place like some did

Steve
We came home to a week of good weather in Scotland, sickening as we were too ill to enjoy it.

It was not really possible for those of us who arrived on the Thursday or Friday before the competition to change hotel. If we have to go several days early to change hotels like you do then the participation will be greatly reduced for those who have holiday restrictions.

But the purpose of this thread is not to change the past. Before I retired I went to many professional conferences and similar things, eg. Oracle conferences, and we were always sent an internet appraisal form to comment on the event. This was not for the past but to improve things for the future. Many hotels I book on the internet do this. This thread is our volontary contribution to this process.

We must comment on the things that were unsatisfactory so that they will be better next time.

One thing not yet covered in the thread so far. If it had not been Joe and Eric the pre-competition news would have been non-existent. Thank you boys for your enthusiasm and posts. For York I did a continously updated web site showing pictures of the teams as they evolved and with biographical details. see
http://ewc2004.users.btopenworld.com/Teamnews.html
This has pictures and biographical details. The pictures help fit names to people (OK Lenny?) and the biographical details foster social interaction. Including info on the equipment used would be very interesting but of course we would expect some silence on "secret weapons".
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Old Sep 29, 2008, 02:11 PM
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Thanks George. We will have a great 2010, no doubt.
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