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Old Sep 27, 2008, 03:42 PM
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Mark Haigh's Avatar
Barnsley, Great Britain (UK)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Seale
............

Mike

BTW, can we have the next one in late July or August so that I can take part again?
Thats if you're still quick enough Mike

Mark
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Old Sep 27, 2008, 04:24 PM
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Quote:
BTW, can we have the next one in late July or August so that I can take part again?
That rules out the southern hemisphere then.
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Old Sep 27, 2008, 05:15 PM
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Sydney Australia
Joined Feb 2002
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David H
That rules out the southern hemisphere then.
Not neccessarily. If the event were held in say Bundaberg or even Cairns I'm sure that July or August would still work from a weather point of view. There are many other considerations of course, and early December may well suit the Southern Hemisphere more. Apparently a Xmas break is relatively common in Europe these days. Easter is another possibility.
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Old Sep 27, 2008, 06:38 PM
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United States, CA, Los Angeles
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looking ahead

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveSawers
A major part of the problem with putting on a world championship event is that it is a thankless task.

There's not enough income from the entry fees to compensate the organizers for even a small part of the time and effort they put in. An event that goes badly will be criticized by the competitors, even if the problems are due to uncontrollables like the weather.

It's no wonder there are few bids for running an event.
Valid point Dave.

I've looked at some of the numbers for the US effort and it's not an easy thing to do, especially as a stand alone event.

Further, in consideration of the host country's standard of living, we were not doing too badly (again, by Ukraine standings).

I think the people from the Ukraine, if they were to read this, might have a difficult time understanding how some of us feel, perhaps even seeing us as a bunch of primodona whinners. The people stayng in the Prolisik, that were there on buisness, and I met three different professional groups there (Hilti, etc..), none of them thought this hotel to be far out of the ordinary based on their biz travels. Common to their other hotel experience was a temporary lack of hot water in the mornings: not a big problem to them, nor was fish and rice / chicken and potatoes, nor a microwaved sandwich with tomato and cheese/hardboiled eggs/yougurt such bad meals as I learned; by Ukrainian standards.

No heat? Guess what guys, it's the law there and its the same in Italy too. Not what most of us are used, I know. And YES! I would have preferred heat, no doubt.

I've had worse and I've had better. Sure we would have liked better food or some options. I think its funny (really) the food we had, I laughed at just about every meal I was given! I didn't see the German's complaining much; they just got food else where, at the nearby Chalet. I didn't see the Japanese complaining much, they just got a Hibachi and cooked they're own.

To those in the Ukraine reading this, please know that most of us were/are very appreciative of having been invited to your country. Most of us recognize that as a people, you in the Ukraine have overcome huge odds and major suppression. It's unlikely that many of us "visitors" have ever been unable to buy fuel, bread, fresh milk, coffee or diapers. I spoke to many Ukrainian's that had lived through times like that, and a lot worse.

It is my hope that we, as a community of RCers, might appreciate where the Ukrainians have come from, the pride they have in their independance, the struggles they currently have, and the fact that we "westerners" were so warmly welcomed for the most part. No, it wasn't our Marriot, nor was it our Holiday Inn. They just aren't there yet.

I'll share someyhing with you, I called a meeting with Victor before most of you arrived. I mentioned to him the flak he would likely be receiving based on the condition of the hotel and the services. He, his wife, Silvia and I scoured the local area from an improvement, not for USA, but for you, the rest of the gang; Team USA had allready secured our new place earlier that day. Well, no further options were available locally. Three in our group, at the "better" hotel, had rooms with no bathroom! It was a converted house and the entire floor had one bathroom, so everyone shared. Half the lights worked and there was no heat. The smart ones (Wayne and Steve) bought space heaters. Those two were very popular guys when it came to drying out our wet clothes at the end of the day.

It's different in the Ukraine, yes. Perhaps a golden opportunity to appreciate what we all have the good fortune of coming home too, if nothing else.

For me, it was much more than the little difficulties along the way, and I'd do it again in a heart beat. I think most have a similar idea when they look back on the experience.

For those actually there, that wish to have it better in the years to come, perhaps you can offer your help to the next host country, research some options, get some bids, find a sponsor, ask the organisor what he needs help with, present some bright ideas, ahead of time, when it can do us all some good.

No offence George/Tommy, but complaining just reduces the next guys enthusiasm for doing this at all. Consider the alternative, help and contribute to the motion. Be a part of creating the next one, in whatever way you feel you can. If it's simply your entry fee as your contribution, then you'll simply get whats given to you, wherever its given, and you'll simply have the choice of going or not. I for one do hope to see you, and the rest, at the next one! And I'd rather see you with a smile afterward, not a frown. That's how I remeber you two anyways (especially you two!), always smiling You guys are really standout guys, I mean that. Put that energy into making the next one cool and unusual. Perhaps we can raise the bar?

Mark "April" in your Calendars and if the USA gets the bid, let us know then if any of you want to join the fight for making the 2010 WC the best ever.

Eric
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Old Sep 27, 2008, 08:01 PM
turn, turn, turn.
Athol, Massachusetts
Joined Oct 2005
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Nice post Eric.

Now I feel like crap....as I should.

My appologies to the people of Kiev.
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Old Sep 27, 2008, 08:41 PM
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United States, CA, Los Angeles
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Ken,

I hope that's temporary :-)

Eric

PS -you've brought this kid a lot of smiles over the years and I won't stand for you feeling like crap for very long, so...

PPS Integrity has two parts; 1) knowing your truth and 2) being willing to talk about it. You have integrity. You got some more data, you looked at it, and your truth changed, that's all. That's a good thing!! Cheers, Eric
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Old Sep 27, 2008, 09:12 PM
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Oxley, Vic, Australia
Joined Jun 2005
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WCs conditions

Nice sentiments Eric, but I do not agree that the conditions were anywhere near Ok @ Kiev.

If the group putting in the bid do not have a suitable venue or suitable facilities or the ability to run the event then they should NOT be making the bid !! My personal feeling is that countries that do not have fliers of a particular F category (eg F5B/D) should not be eligible to bid to run a WC in that category. I do NOT believe that the last 2 WCs were run by committees whose main interest/motivation was an interest in F5 events. Prior to these this was the case.

I did not try to run the 1994 F5 WCs in a "paddock" even though that is where all our "Nationals Electric Rallys" were held. If that was the only option, then we would not have made the bid for Wangaratta!

I felt bad for our helpers that they had to pay for their own way for the "privilege" helping at a World Championship! They only received a "free lunch" and a T-shirt for their effort, but they all enjoyed working to help the International competitors because they were all aeromodellers (or friends/partners of) - and most flew some type of electric model.

We used "Airworld" BECAUSE there were solid, storm/weather proof buildings - even though we had picked the month of November because it had some of the best FLYING conditions (light wind/warm weather) from past weather records. Despite the careful checking of climate records, the week before the event we had extreme weather (for us) in the form of strong winds, and we had higher than normal winds during the event. I am sure Rudi will remember trying to catch up in his last flight in blustery conditions.

We also selected Airworld because it was only a 5km drive from the main accommodation areas. Unfortunately, Airworld is used little now for modelling events due to past local politics and personal friction between the local council (who own it) and those who were organizing the use of the facilities for sport aviation.

One final comment - have a look at the facilities etc at the 2008 F3J WCs !
http://www.f3jturkey.com/index.php

Ray
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Old Sep 27, 2008, 09:20 PM
turn, turn, turn.
Athol, Massachusetts
Joined Oct 2005
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Thanks Eric,
I'll try to feel better tomorrow.

I appreciate what you say.
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Old Sep 27, 2008, 09:33 PM
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United States, CA, San Diego
Joined Dec 1999
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stingray F5B
If the group putting in the bid do not have a suitable venue or suitable facilities or the ability to run the event then they should NOT be making the bid !! My personal feeling is that countries that do not have fliers of a particular F category (eg F5B/D) should not be eligible to bid to run a WC in that category. I do NOT believe that the last 2 WCs were run by committees whose main interest/motivation was an interest in F5 events. Prior to these this was the case.

Ray
The Kiev site was quite suitable for the WC. Unlike most WC there were very few areas that were "no fly" zones. On the way home at the airport I talked to some tourists that had been in Odessa and guess what--it was raining there too. The weather was not under the control of the people running the event. No matter how hard one might wish the weather is a wild card. The weather records did not suggest that the dates should have been a major rain period. I think that if there been a week of sun that would have been a lot more happy people.


I for one was happy to come home to dry,sunny and warm San Diego

Now have to find the sun block rather than the Rain-X--always problems


Steve Neu
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Old Sep 28, 2008, 01:48 AM
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Oxley, Vic, Australia
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Yep - I checked the Odessa weather during the WCs - rain as well, but 19oC not 11oC


Ray
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Old Sep 28, 2008, 04:50 AM
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Well Steve,

TBH, the field at Kiev seems to me NOT to have met all the criteria required to run a successful WC

Yep, it was good for flying but creature comforts are also important.

The toilets are a prime example,

When they overflowed in Romania at the very least there was the corn field which provided at least some privacy...Kiev...none at all

The shelters (which required additonal payment) were at best marginally effective against what I consider to be severe elements.

I find it quite remarkable that a team which managed to locate alternative accom to Prolisok can say that it is how you cope with it and there were alternatives... NOt for all.

I read back over the Goodbye Odessa threads and know that the issues I perceived as problems in Kiev were not imaginary, they were real and came to fruition...including the weather...

there is a massive difference between 19c in the rain and 11c in the rain (for our non metricated friends.. 52F to 66F... for me Hypothermia territory vs not...

As for belittling a nation which has struggled to get where it is...yep that's true...but China had many concerns with the Olympics and these too were not addressed to the satisfaction of the IOC...the Games went ahead anyway...and yes it impacted on performances... as said by Stingray...a country must have some concept of what the sport is about before it can adequately plan and hold a high level event..

In essence...there is more to a WC than the suitability of the field for flying...

accomodation, food, basic health factors including sanitary conditions, and transport need to be considered...



Food for thought for the FAI I think
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Old Sep 28, 2008, 08:16 AM
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I find it odd to see all these critical comments from a poster that does not chose to use their name and seems to have joined just to post comments about a event that they didn't attend.

I for one would go to Ukraine again for a contest if it were held there. I would be wiser about hotel choice but the basics were suitable if not a little rough around the edges.

I would suggest that Hanger On submit a bid for a WC with his aero club and actually do the work to make it come to pass. It is at least a 2 year effort with dozens of meetings and paper work. Getting all the people needed is a very tough thing to do given the time they need to put in. After it is all said and done we would be happy to pick apart your effort and find the warts


Steve Neu
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Old Sep 28, 2008, 01:30 PM
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After reading some posts here and different points of views I think acceptable conditions depend on the eye of the beholder. For some people acceptable might be a tent and cooking utensils, but for others ease of transportation, hotels, etc are important as well.

In my opinion both are valid and should be heard and respected.

Having said that, event planning is a hard and thankless job, not only that, you will never achieve 100% satisfaction...
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Old Sep 28, 2008, 03:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sneu
I find it odd to see all these critical comments from a poster that does not chose to use their name and seems to have joined just to post comments about a event that they didn't attend.


I would suggest that Hanger On submit a bid for a WC with his aero club and actually do the work to make it come to pass. It is at least a 2 year effort with dozens of meetings and paper work. Getting all the people needed is a very tough thing to do given the time they need to put in. After it is all said and done we would be happy to pick apart your effort and find the warts


Steve Neu
Steve,

I chose not to attend based on the conditions I anticipated would eventuate...it appears that my anticipation was accurate...I have been to 3 WC's so not at all new to the sport.

You don't need to tell me about the work invvolved in running any event...I have run plenty at local and national level over the past 20 + years. I have also been involved in runing National and State level events for other sports...
I am one of the people who makes your event happen!


BTW my gender is incorrect on your post...more people go to WC than just male fliers, I don't fly and never have flown...without the helpers as you say the event doesn't happen!
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Old Sep 28, 2008, 04:01 PM
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Eric, you and me went for the very first time and still are very likely to go again even after all the hardship we encoutered. That said, you did spend most of your time in a better place then me and with much better company (Silvia).

The main problem i have is with the food, i don't care about the other things but the provided hotel has got to have a normal continental breakfast and a proper menu for dinner. Anything else is simply not going to ''keep mind and soul together''. Now i don't know if what we got was the deal from the very onset or if something went wrong on the Prolisok side of things but you would think this situation would be rectified after one or two days. There is only so many pancakes with fish you can eat and this is coming from a guy who's country is responsible for ''smoke and a pancake, waffle and a sigar, pipe and a kipper''. So i had to go out and eat in different places just to get my basic nutritian. Lucky it turned out to be very cheap to eat out.

An army marches on it's stomach!

I am sure it will be much better in the USA, Italy or Australia, alternatively i might take up another hobby, take your pick below;

http://www.boreme.com/boreme/funny-2...ingsuit-p1.php

http://www.boreme.com/boreme/funny-2...s-rossy-p1.php

Wing suite (2 min 48 sec)


Plane 2 Plane stunt (0 min 58 sec)


http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=pO4ruO8pnEY

Going, gone...... sssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssplat.

Joe
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