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Old Feb 13, 2003, 04:31 PM
A Few Sandwiches Shy
RMason's Avatar
Orlando, FL
Joined Jun 2001
1,961 Posts
Firebat flies great !!!

With a 2:1 gearbox and 9X6 SF prop.

I stuck a 7.2v sp400 with a 2:1 gear and APC 9X6 prop on mine since I found the stock setup is a dog. Used the recommended throws and elevator neutral position and built it stock with no mods except for the power system.

It took 3 clicks aileron to trim it out on the first flight. It flies faster than my GWS P-51 with an Astro 10 and 9X6 and is very manueverable if you don't yank on the elevator too much in the vertical manuevers. I was using 1/2 elevator for large loops because full elevator would just make it mush at the top. It looses too much speed with full elevator to get it over the top nicely. However, on turns, full elevator makes it swap ends like a pylon racer. Stalls are a non event. It just sits there and mushes along with a little wing wobble.

Great Planes has really done this plane a great disservice by putting that lousy motor combo in it. Just the addition of a simple gearbox wakes this plane right up and makes it fly very well.

If you want a good plane, Tower has them on sale for $35 and spend another $15 on a 2:1 gearbox. If you want something insane - stick a MiniAC or Hacker on it.

Rob
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Old Feb 13, 2003, 05:38 PM
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branson mo.
Joined Mar 2002
242 Posts
glad you got your firebat to fly.. i destroyed mine trying to get the
stock set up to work, can not believe they state that stock set up
will fly it....
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Old Feb 13, 2003, 05:45 PM
A Few Sandwiches Shy
RMason's Avatar
Orlando, FL
Joined Jun 2001
1,961 Posts
I figured that for $35 I could experiment with it.

I plugged in the #'s for the stock system in MotoCalc and saw what everybody posted about. It just won't fly with the stock setup. With the 2:1 and 9X6 it flies great. 45* climb outs and good speed. I figured that if the geared one wouldn't work, I'd just stick on one of my brushless motors.

Rob
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Old Feb 13, 2003, 08:10 PM
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morristown,nj,usa
Joined Sep 2002
83 Posts
how stock is stock?

rmason

Good for you!
I am (slowly) resurrecting mine figuring brute force of a Mega ought to do it.

Did you actually use the full size servos &/ the 1100?mah nicds as "recommended"?
Is the 9x6 a folder or did you put a prop saver on it? - there's not much clearance.

With the suggested neutral elevator/canard angle (apparently pointing down), I could never even get it to glide.
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Old Feb 13, 2003, 10:24 PM
"Bible Thumper"
AMTJIM's Avatar
United States, AZ, Tucson
Joined Mar 2001
1,924 Posts
It really rips with the great planes 1.7:1GB (on sale in the tower daily sale section)bolted onto the motor it comes with and a 9x6 APC E prop on 8 cells, the radio shack 9.6 v 1600 mah fits perfect in the mid wing mold well. Also if you want to scrap the canards OR mount them fixed and fly it as a elevon delta, the quarter size divets near the fuse is the balance point. It almost automatically balance there with the gear installed.
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Old Feb 14, 2003, 02:56 AM
A Few Sandwiches Shy
RMason's Avatar
Orlando, FL
Joined Jun 2001
1,961 Posts
How stock is stock -

2 Mini servos on the ailerons (eventually mixed to elevator), full sized ball bearing servo for the elevator(65 oz in) 1100 HeCell Nimh pushed all the way forward to get CG. 22 oz AUW. Prop is an APC 9X6 non folder (ESC has brake, I just bump throttle to get it level)

Canard is set so that the T.E. is 1mm above the fuse line as per instructions. CG is set per instructions. Control throws per instructions.

Hand launch doesn't take a hefty throw. Just a light toss like my GWS P-51. Climb out is about 45* and brisk. Full throttle level flight is pretty fast, and as long as you don't yank on the elevator, loops and reverse cuban 8's are easy. Any abuse of the elevator causes it to slow drastically and mush through the manoever.

I was quite surprised with the flight characteristics after reading all the posts about this plane. I bought it to experiment with, but it is a very nice flying plane with this setup. I'll eventually go brushless with it just because I can't resist.

Rob
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Old Feb 14, 2003, 08:48 AM
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Walled Lake, MI, USA
Joined Feb 2000
11,182 Posts
The lightweight option for the Firebat/Foxbat that has also been reported to work well is the GWS EPS-300C. As has been reported elsewhere, the 300 motors in the EPS-300C are timed so that they perform better and last longer as pushers than as tractors. I have one that I want to build as light as possible, so I'm planning to go the EPS-300C route.
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Old Feb 14, 2003, 08:53 AM
CAP 232-aholic
DiabloKid's Avatar
Centreville, VA
Joined Jan 2003
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mines in the paint shop getting a makeover and I just oredered a Great Planes 1.7:1GB from Tower. Got a spare speed 400 im gonna pop in it, just need to decide what to use for battery and esc and im all set, any suggestions gents?



matt
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Old Feb 14, 2003, 09:34 AM
A Few Sandwiches Shy
RMason's Avatar
Orlando, FL
Joined Jun 2001
1,961 Posts
Dave - Thought about going that route. I even have extra EPS 300's laying around. I would have tried them if this setup didn't work. I just like the speed I get from the 400 & 9X6. If it looks like a jet, it ought to fly like a jet.

Eventually I'll put my 5 channel reciever in, so I can mix the ailerons to the elevator. That ought to help increase pitch sensitivity without causing it to do the delta mush.

I just wish they had designed a little higher aspect ratio wing for it. Canards can provide great control response and stability, but with a low AR delta wing a lot of the maneuverability is wasted. The delta does provide a stable, forgiving and slow flying quality though. Power on stalls at 45* are just a forward mush with a little rock to the wings. It doesn't even loose height, it just sits there and mushes along. A slight AOA reduction, and it's climbing.

This plane flies more on AOA than anything else I've seen. Remember that, and it will fly nicely.

I'd love to get it into a wind tunnel. The close mounted canards provide some interesting airflow over the wing. Almost a slotted effect, with a variable camber front flap. Mixing elevons will give it a lot more maneuverability.

Rob
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Old Feb 14, 2003, 03:09 PM
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hopsterguy's Avatar
Westerly, RI, USA
Joined Oct 2002
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How small of an area can this thing fly in w/ the geared 1.7 or 2:1 setup? I'm picking one up for the heck of it at this price... something to fool around with.

Basically, can it slow down nicely or are the landings hot... etc.
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Old Feb 14, 2003, 03:30 PM
CAP 232-aholic
DiabloKid's Avatar
Centreville, VA
Joined Jan 2003
1,391 Posts
Quote:
Originally posted by hopsterguy
How small of an area can this thing fly in w/ the geared 1.7 or 2:1 setup? I'm picking one up for the heck of it at this price... something to fool around with.

Basically, can it slow down nicely or are the landings hot... etc.
not sure with that gearing but I will find out next week Ill be sure to let you know
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Old Feb 14, 2003, 04:43 PM
A Few Sandwiches Shy
RMason's Avatar
Orlando, FL
Joined Jun 2001
1,961 Posts
The Firebat flies pretty quickly with the 2:1 setup. All out level flight speed is around 35+. It will slow down nicely for landing though. It just floats in.

IMPORTANT - USE 2-56 ROD TO CONTROL THE CANARD. The supplied rod isn't strong enough to actuate the canard at high speed. Also use a servo with at least 50 oz.in. torque.

I found out the hard way today. A full throttle diving pass that just kept going right into the ground. Pretty spectacular - got it on video. The canard controls uses a push to give "up". The supplied .035 or .047 rod WILL BEND AND CAUSE YOU TO NOT HAVE ANY ELEVATOR.

Full speed 45+mph right into the ground makes a spectacular sound. wheeeeEEEEEEEEE WHAP. I was pulling full up the whole time. All it did was break the nose off in front of the wing and pop the canards loose. I had it fixed in 1/2 hour.

Rob
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Old Feb 14, 2003, 05:12 PM
CAP 232-aholic
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Centreville, VA
Joined Jan 2003
1,391 Posts
sorry to hear about your crash, do you think a Futaba 3004 will do the trick for that servo?
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Old Feb 14, 2003, 07:44 PM
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Westerly, RI, USA
Joined Oct 2002
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Thanks for the info guys... Will be good to see what it can do. I'm just fooling around with it at this price.

Diablo... do be sure to let us know how it goes.

It looks like it will look nice in flight... I may just put a brushless in it after fooling around w/ brushed.
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Old Feb 14, 2003, 10:22 PM
"Bible Thumper"
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United States, AZ, Tucson
Joined Mar 2001
1,924 Posts
Rmason,
I think your analysis of the canard may be wrong, my glow bats have done just fine with the supplied rod at dive speeds that had to be near if not over 100+. Are you sure the canard arm didn't slip, thats one of the main problems experienced by owners of this plane. You need to atleast dimple the brass tube if not poke through it, so the canard throw arm doesn't slip.
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