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Old Oct 15, 2008, 02:09 PM
Rotor madness!
Rodan's Avatar
Northern AZ
Joined Oct 2006
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Looks great so far!

I purchase one of these back in June. A local gent did a great job building it, but couldn't bear to risk flying it! I got it basically as a finished plane, with only the aileron servos installed. I finally got around to putting it all together, and am nearly ready to fly, but I need to know where is the CG? I didn't get any plans, and after downloading the manual from the Page site, they refer to the plans, but don't give the CG...

Can you tell me what the CG should be?

BTW, I'm using a Saito 1.00 for power, and I'll post up a flight report when I get it in the air...
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Old Oct 15, 2008, 02:54 PM
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USA, WA, Edmonds
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Ill look it up when I get home from work. The designer stresses in the instruction book that getting the CG right is the most important aspect of making this plane fly well. He also says that the plane flys very well and is not incredibly difficult to fly but takes some skill to land due to the shallow approach needed.
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Old Oct 15, 2008, 06:33 PM
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Here is the CG as promised. It appears to be 2 1/8 inches back from the LE which is less than 20% chord. I can see why some people would have bad experiences if they go by the 25% chord rule.

I'll trust the Adrian and put the CG of mine at the recommended with the assumption that fuel will make it more nose heavy on takeoff.
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Old Oct 15, 2008, 11:09 PM
Rotor madness!
Rodan's Avatar
Northern AZ
Joined Oct 2006
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Thanks!

It'll be a couple weeks before I get the chance to get back to the field, but I should have this in the air in early Nov. I'll let you know how it does.
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Old Oct 16, 2008, 03:11 PM
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Be sure to post a video of the maiden. What engine are you going to use?
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Old Oct 16, 2008, 03:15 PM
Rotor madness!
Rodan's Avatar
Northern AZ
Joined Oct 2006
1,120 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rodan

BTW, I'm using a Saito 1.00 for power, and I'll post up a flight report when I get it in the air...
Probably won't have video. I don't own a video camera, and I've yet to see one show up at my field... sorry.
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Old Oct 16, 2008, 04:14 PM
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Duh, I should have remembered what engine you were using or that you posted that info.

Does anyone at your field have a digital camera that can take video?

Do you have guess at what the weight will be?
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Old Oct 18, 2008, 09:43 PM
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Today, I installed the landing gear, rough sanded the forward bottom fuselage, and began assembling the wheel pants. Luckily, the person I bought the kit from also bought the fiberglass wheel pants so I don't have to deal with the plastic wheel pants.

I am in a temporary living arrangement where I don't have access to some basic tools such as a vice. This gives one a new appreciation for these tools when trying to bend and cut 1/8" steel wire.
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Old Oct 19, 2008, 08:41 PM
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No pics from today. I only made some hatches for the aileron servos using 1/16" balsa sheet. The spaces between the ribs are about 4 1/8 inches wide which meant I had to make my balsa sheet a little wider. If you plan on running my type of aileron setup with hatches, shift the rib caps all the way to the inside to avoid this.
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Old Nov 01, 2008, 09:15 AM
Rotor madness!
Rodan's Avatar
Northern AZ
Joined Oct 2006
1,120 Posts
Per Adrian Page, the CG is 2.125" from the leading edge.

I've just returned from two weeks out of town, but will probably be doing the balancing and final setup tomorrow. I don't know the weight at the moment, but will post up the results after balancing...
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Old Nov 01, 2008, 05:20 PM
Rotor madness!
Rodan's Avatar
Northern AZ
Joined Oct 2006
1,120 Posts
Well, I got some free time to fiddle with the plane this afternoon, and I have a serious problem:

I weighed the plane with everything except gas and battery. This thing is supposed to weigh 6.5 lbs, and it's 9lbs...

I guess the guy that built it used lead solder instead of CA...

Worse yet, it took 4lbs (!) at the firewall to get it to balance. At 13lbs, wing loading is in the 50 oz/sq ft range. Definitely not flyable. I'm beginning to suspect the reason for the builders 'fear' of flying it, and why he wanted to sell it...

Don't know what I'm going to do at this point, but I don't think I'll be flying this one... maybe I can find someone that needs a static display.
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Old Nov 02, 2008, 01:15 AM
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You could bolt the weight to the engine mount or put it in the front of the cowl which could cut it down a lot. Im guessing you have the servos, and everything else as far forward as possible. Can you tell if he excessively used elmers or epoxy? Are you sure the previous builder didn't put some lead weight in the tail to balance it before you got it, 4 pounds seems pretty excessive to have to balance this thing.


Im beginning to get worried about the weight of mine but I think it will be ok. I mounted the wing today and it seems like the motor will be enough to balance it out closely. Ill probably try to get an estimate of the weight tomorrow. The final weight of plane shouldn't be more than a pound heavier than everything built and bought so far.
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Old Nov 02, 2008, 07:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bwalt822
You could bolt the weight to the engine mount or put it in the front of the cowl which could cut it down a lot. Im guessing you have the servos, and everything else as far forward as possible. Can you tell if he excessively used elmers or epoxy? Are you sure the previous builder didn't put some lead weight in the tail to balance it before you got it, 4 pounds seems pretty excessive to have to balance this thing.


Im beginning to get worried about the weight of mine but I think it will be ok. I mounted the wing today and it seems like the motor will be enough to balance it out closely. Ill probably try to get an estimate of the weight tomorrow. The final weight of plane shouldn't be more than a pound heavier than everything built and bought so far.
I agree that one would suspect there maybe weight added somewhere already, hidden in the structure.
I don't not recall reading from any other builds of so much weigh being needed.
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Old Nov 02, 2008, 08:45 AM
Rotor madness!
Rodan's Avatar
Northern AZ
Joined Oct 2006
1,120 Posts
I can't imagine he would have added weight to the tail for balance given the dimensions of this airplane. Also, the info I got from the builder when I bought it indicated he had set it up with a Saito .91, which is .1 oz heavier than the Saito 1.00 which I'm using. Since there's no indication he attempted to add any weight at the front, I'm guessing he never tried to balance it, or, upon discovering the same problem I did, decided to sell it to some unsuspecting schmuck (like me )

I took the wing off and took another look at the construction, and it doesn't look like he used an excessive amount of adhesives, but there is plenty there. I can't see into the tail area because of a bulkhead at the rear of the fuse. Another issue may be the covering and finishing. He used Sig Coverall and dope, then painted with latex, and then clearcoated it. I can see where that could add some weight if he really laid it on.

Even if I didn't have to add any weight, it would still be 50% over designed weight. This one is not going to be flying...

Maybe I can donate it to someone and take a tax write off...
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Old Nov 02, 2008, 07:11 PM
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I got the incredibly fun job of mounting the wheel pants done today and made a fiberglass door that will give me access to the switch, charging jack, voltmeter, fuel valve, and remote glow plug ignition.

I also did a weight estimate which included everything but the covering, bottom fuselage, remote glow, and windscreen (I forgot to put it in the pile). Extras in the weight were the packaging of anything that was unbuilt yet. The current weight is about 7.5 pounds and I hope it doesn't come to more than 8 by the time we are done.
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