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Old Feb 12, 2003, 09:24 PM
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Thunder Power Li-Poly Batteries and Electronics

Dear fellow RC entusiasts,

After 6 months of extensive research and flight testing, we are proud and excited to introduce a revolutionary new line of products to power your models!

The design concept of this product line is to provide maximum performance by using the highest energy density cells. For most applications, these new cells will provide an increase of power, at reduced weight, while providing significantly improved flight durations!

While the performance of these packs is incredible, at the same time, we have addressed many of the safety issues and concerns regarding Lithium Polymer technologies. Topics such as proper care and charging of Lithium cells has been well discussed, but because we are not new to this market, we have taken safety a few steps further. Protection Circuit Modules (PCM) and our unique cell balancing technolgy will not only help prevent dangerous overcharging of packs, but also improve cycle life.

This weekend, we plan to premiere the "Thunder Power" line of Lithium Polymer batteries by powering many of the impressive models which will be attending the San Diego Mid Winter Electrics. I will be away for the show the duration of the weekend, but I have begun this thread in hopes that those in attendence and those who are able to test the packs themselves, can provide feedback on what they saw or experienced.

Regards,

Charlie Wang
CEO Thunder Power
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Last edited by Charlie Wang; Feb 12, 2003 at 11:23 PM.
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Old Feb 12, 2003, 09:30 PM
MKH
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Ohio
Joined Mar 2000
2,597 Posts
Well, someone's got to be the first to ask, so;

what capacitys are available?
how much do they weigh?
how much do they cost?

Looking forward to hearing more.
Marcus
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Old Feb 12, 2003, 10:07 PM
17 years on RCG!
United States, NV, Las Vegas
Joined Dec 1996
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This is fantastic news Charlie! Im so glad to see your announcement has now become official and I look forward to all the information this thread will soon provide!

As a note to everyone - Charlie has been kind enough to let myself and many of my flying buddies test his packs in our airplanes and helis. When I first met Charlie many months ago I never could have imagined the type of performance his packs would offer! Now, Im flying my e-helis for 15-20+ minutes with more power and less weight than the subC packs I was using! And these helis are hard on packs - theyre the Logo 20 and my RappE (Glow Raptor 50 conversion) which were getting 5-8 minutes of flight time on some of the best 3000 mah cells. I was always hoping to gain more power and flight time - and Charlie's packs gave me both!

But that is only the tip of the iceberg! We've flown these packs in everything from slow flyers, to Zagis, to 3D aerobats, and many other e-helis. These packs are incredible! I think the most impressive part is that these packs have "real life" testing under their belt. Ive seen it, my buddies have seen is, as have many others who have tested the packs - they simply perform the way we need them to, every time we use them!

Even more incredible will be this weekend in San Diego at the Midwinter Electrics. There will be some absolutely incredible demo flights from one of the largest manufacturers in attendence using Charlie's batteries exclusively! Now everyone who will be at the show can see how well these packs perform in airplanes up to 80" and nearly 18 pounds! Thatll be absolutely incredible - I cant wait to see it myself!

MKH - I think I can help answer a few of those questions:

what capacitys are available?

This weekend, almost all the packs flown will be 7800 mah - basically almost drop in replacements for 2400-3000 mah subCs that many have been using in the past. There will also be 1950, 3300 and 3900 mah packs offered for slow flyers, speed 400 models, etc. Charlie will offer more sizes (Smaller sizes and even larger ones!) later on, but these packs were first on the list!

how much do they weigh? how much do they cost?

Less than subCs The packs are built using 1950 mah cells, mostly in 4p configurations (There are also 2p packs used in speed 400 and similiar sized models). The most common used packs are 3s4p and 4s4p. The 3s4p pack replaces 10 cell subC packs and weighs 16 ounces - that is 4-6 ounces LESS than the subC packs! Thats just one example - there should be a web site soon listing all the pack dimensions, weights, capacities and costs. The prices arent set yet, but they will be in the next few weeks.

This should be a very exciting thread

Jason
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Old Feb 12, 2003, 10:34 PM
MKH
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Ohio
Joined Mar 2000
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Thanks Jason, I'd be interested in what each cell weighs, as I may have a use for this size soon.
MKH
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Old Feb 13, 2003, 03:48 AM
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Redwood City, CA USA
Joined Mar 2002
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Woohoo Congrats Charlie. A while back i read all those threads on the runryder site and couldn't wait to learn more about your packs.

Providing experts with samples of your Thunder Power packs, and then suggesting that they post their experience on a public forum is bold and noble. I have much respect for you and wish you the best. Btw, having the packs demo'd at MWE will make heads turn for sure -- more than ever i wish i was attending the event this year......why yes, i think there is a big "L" on my forehead

Btw, when you get the website ready, be sure to order lots of bandwidth

Jason, thank you for the excellent info and details on Charlie's Thunder Power batteries.
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Old Feb 13, 2003, 05:46 AM
A man with too many toys
United States
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How many cycles will they last at 3C and 5C?
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Old Feb 13, 2003, 11:40 AM
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kepople's Avatar
United States, TX, Rockwall
Joined Jun 2001
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Dang iT!!!

I am so glad to see these are coming on line and I cant wait to try some in my E3d, but I cant make it to MWE!!! Dont sell out while you are there!

Chargers seem to be the weak link here. Will you be selling chargers as well?

Kirby
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Old Feb 13, 2003, 03:03 PM
17 years on RCG!
United States, NV, Las Vegas
Joined Dec 1996
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Kirby -

The 3S4P packs are PERFECT for the E3D! They weigh 16 ounces which is around 4-6 ounces less than 10 subCs and even 2 ounces less than CP1700s! Best of all, they hold their voltage better through the flight and that makes the entire 20-30 minute flight a lot of fun Power is every bit as good as the better 3000 mah cells most use now.

There is no problem fitting these packs into the battery compartment. The only thing is that they make the battery cover stick up 1/16", but with some tape in place, its not going anywhere.

There should be at least 2 and maybe even more E3Ds flying the packs this weekend! Im FINALLY getting a built E3D from someone while in SD this weekend so when I come home I'll be able to fly the packs myself. I plan to fly with the stock Endo for a few flights, then switch to a Hacker

As for chargers, there are a few right now that work really well. The Great Planes Triton does 1-4 cells at up to 2.5 amps and has proven to be very reliable and safe with its charging of the LiPos. The newest Orbit software allows the Orbit chargers to work very well and a few new safetys have been added to prevent overcharging, improper cell count selection, etc. The Triton definitely works, but we plan to test the newest Orbit software as soon as we can get the upgrade chips. Another good charger is the SC2 from B-P-P.com. We havent had a chance to test it yet(Hopefully I can order a few from Troy next week if he's caught up on production), but it can charger 1-3 cells, on 2 ports up to 4.5 amps! Youll need to use a 13.8v power supply to so this, but you can have one and even two packs charged in less than 2 hours! Armed with 2 packs, thats a good 45-60+ minutes of flight time - geez, I dont even think I fly that much in a single day right now on subCs!

I cant say enough how happy I am with these packs! I have gotten so much more stick time, and the time has been more valueable. Its hard to even bring myself to fly my 3000s anymore

Jason
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Old Feb 13, 2003, 04:15 PM
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New math?Or just advanced hype? Check your numbers---at last check CP2400s weighed about 60 grams and CP1700s were 42-43 grams. If you do the math CP1700s are around 6 oz less than the 2400s. So by your logic the "new" battery is 8 oz less then the 2400s. My guess is that it's time to refigure your numbers.
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Old Feb 13, 2003, 04:51 PM
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Sydney Australia
Joined Feb 2002
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Quote:
Originally posted by sneu
New math?Or just advanced hype? Check your numbers---at last check CP2400s weighed about 60 grams and CP1700s were 42-43 grams. If you do the math CP1700s are around 6 oz less than the 2400s. So by your logic the "new" battery is 8 oz less then the 2400s. My guess is that it's time to refigure your numbers.
No doubt there is an element of hype, as with most new products, and even some old ones. Some independent robust testing is clearly required.

However it also seems clear, based on the variety or independent reports already available, that, at a cost, Lipoly cells are going to deliver significantly longer flight times for a similar weight.

I, for one, will be a customer as soon as I can buy ready made packs, with a reliable charger. To be able to put a .40 size electric equivalent plane in the air for as long as a gas pilot flys is definitely something to look forward to.

As a lower intermediate pilot I put a 55 oz sports plane in the air for 6 minutes on 10x3000. That's enough time to do maybe 4 practice landings by the time trim has been checked out and a couple of circuits to warm up the fingers. If I could do 8 landings, I would improve faster.

same goes for aerobatics. By the time you've warmed up for some knife edge its time to land.
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Old Feb 13, 2003, 11:17 PM
EFlight=Fun,Big-T=BIG FUN
San Antonio, TX, USA
Joined Jan 2001
964 Posts
I want...

DETAILS!
Give me a web site (with MUCH bandwidth) that has:
1. Cell model number
2. Cell rated capacity
3. Size & Weight
4. INTERNAL RESISTANCE (for MotoCalc, etc)
5. Discharge characteristics: Like discharge curves for 1C, 2C, 4C, 6C, 8C, 10C (if they can handle it)
6. Price, shipping and availability.

Have Orbit - waiting on info about li-Ion upgrade.
Have wife lined up to pay $300 for a brushless drive system of my choice (don't ask - it's awful).
Have a sleek .25 gasser kit ready for conversion.
Have a Sig 4*40 kit ready for conversion (wife has not seen it yet).
Have a 8ft foamie big bird looking for 15+ min WOT flights (need 4S, 30A discharge for 7.5Ah+ - bigger to deal with capacity loss due to high discharge rates). Yes, I >NEED< to take off with the gasser big birds, fly around the pattern with them (WOT is good), and land AFTER THEY RUN OUT OF GAS!
"Get a real airplane.." HA!

Have the NEED!
Don't have the info to spec it out and build it.
Details, PLEASE!

Thanks,
Bernard "Crash" Siegel
P.S. For all of you going to MWE I have 2 words: ENVY! ENJOY!
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Old Feb 17, 2003, 09:03 PM
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Joined Dec 1996
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Just got back from MWE last night and WOW, what an event!

All of the Aero Model planes from E3Ds up to the HUGE Funtana flew on the LiPos for 15-30+ minute flights! Its amazing to think these same airplanes were only flying 5-10 minutes a few months ago and now they can OUTFLY the glow guys with power and flight time! The show was great for helis as well - 15-25 minute flights on a bunch of the high powered stuff, even the 30 cell Joker flew for 16 minutes of hard 3D on the Thunder Power packs!

Bernard, hopefully I can help a little here:

1. Cell model number
2. Cell rated capacity

The most popular cell this weekend were the 1950 mah ones used in almost all the packs. Using em as 4P you get 7800 mah and they drop right in for airplanes pulling 40-50 amps and will EASILY power your airplane at 30 amps and deliver over 90% capacity even at WOT!

3. Size & Weight

You can see the sizes and weights for individual cells and for the 4S4P pack you would be best to use here:

http://www.flightenergy.com

4. INTERNAL RESISTANCE (for MotoCalc, etc)

Im going to ask Charlie later this week what numbers we can plug in for Motocalc. I can tell you this - the IR is way, way lower than any of the subC NiCads! They drop very little in voltage under load!

5. Discharge characteristics: Like discharge curves for 1C, 2C, 4C, 6C, 8C, 10C (if they can handle it)

The 4S4P pack can readily handle 3-4C continuous and deliver 90%+ capacity! This weekend, the same packs were used in airplanes drawing 62+ amps (Thats about 7/8C!) for short bursts without any difficulty! Thats excellent because they can drop into just about every airplane guys fly now except for a few of the EDFs and F5B birds pulling 60-100 amps continuous

6. Price, shipping and availability

Packs will be available in about 4-6 weeks. You can check Flightenergy.com and purchase them there, and there should also be more distributors set up in other areas around that same time. I dont think the final pricing has been set yet, but should be posted in the next few weeks.

I think the 4S4P pack will be perfect for your new bird Bernard!

Jason
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Old Feb 17, 2003, 09:58 PM
EFlight=Fun,Big-T=BIG FUN
San Antonio, TX, USA
Joined Jan 2001
964 Posts
Jason,
Thanks, man.
This is much of what I wanted.
Fired off an email asking for IR and pics and what wire/size and connectors, prices, etc...
Looks like the 4S4P pack will do nicely at 5-6oz lighter than my current NiMh (12x3000) and NiCD packs (12x2400). May have to widen the slot a little bit since the lipo is just a bit taller than the existing pack - maybe not, need to try it.
Modeled it using a competitor's IR value - works nicely.

I hope I can get some soon. The gas guys say "5 mins and Crash is done" when I'm asked how long my big bird flies. Just wait until 5 minutes, becomes 8, 10, 12, 14 mins... "Hey. I'm tired! Coming in' and buzz the strip at WOT. Yah! Feel the NEED!
Bernard "Crash" Siegel
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Old Feb 17, 2003, 10:03 PM
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davidleitch's Avatar
Sydney Australia
Joined Feb 2002
5,875 Posts
Quote:
Originally posted by LVRCFlyer
J

3. Size & Weight

You can see the sizes and weights for individual cells and for the 4S4P pack you would be best to use here:

http://www.flightenergy.com

My computer must not be updating as I couldn't see too many sizes and weights just now.

dave
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Old Feb 17, 2003, 10:19 PM
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planekrazy's Avatar
Redwood City, CA USA
Joined Mar 2002
495 Posts
When i scrolled down this is what i read:


Specifications

Single 1950 MaH Cell
Length: 2 3/8 Width: 1 15/16 Height: 7/32 Weight / oz: 1.25
Voltage: 3.7v nominal / 4.2v fully charged
Price: TBA

2S4P Pre-assembled pack
Length: 5 1/4" Width: 1 15/16 Height: 1 1/8 Weight / oz: 10.8
Voltage: 7.4v nominal / 8.4v full charged
Sample applications: Replacement for 6 cell sub-C NiCad, 6-7 cell sub-C NiMH, 500-600 size powered trainers, motor gliders, sport planes; Hobbico SuperStar EP, Corona 120 helicopter, R/C cars
Price: TBA

3S4P Pre-assembled pack
Length: 7 3/4" Width: 1 15/16 Height: 1 1/8 Weight / oz: 16.0
Voltage: 11.1 nominal / 12.6v fully charged
Sample applications: Replacement for 9-10 cell sub-C NiCad and NiMH packs, 500-600 size powered trainers, motor gliders, sport planes, high powered 3D aircraft and helis; GWMP E3D (Stock Endoplasma or brushless), JR Voyager E, ECO 8. These packs can also be used in series to provide power for 20 and 30 cell airplanes and helicopters (Such as the U-Can-Do 3D, Lexx, Funtana, RappE, HawkE, Logo 20, Logo 30), as well as with other sizes of packs to produce 16 cell and 23 cell replacements.
Price: TBA

4S4P Pre-assembled pack
Length: 10 1/4" Width: 1 15/16 Height: 1 1/8 Weight / oz: 21.4
Voltage: 14.8v nominal / 16.8 fully charged
Sample applications: Replacement for 12-13 cell sub-C NiCad and NiMH packs, larger sized trainers, motor-gliders and sport planes, high powered 3D aircraft and helis; Sig LT-25, Diablotin series, ECO 8, Logo 10. These packs can also be used in series to provide power for 26 and 38 cell airplanes and helicopters (Such as various _ scale conversions, Logo 20), as well as with other sizes of packs to produce 18 cell, 23 cell, and 33 cell replacements.
Price: TBA
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