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Old Sep 23, 2008, 11:04 AM
Resistance is Futile
camship's Avatar
United States, FL, Panama City Beach
Joined Oct 2001
2,680 Posts
Bill,

I recently tested a GPS only Backup Artificial Horizon and Nav system for GA and was very impressed with it's performance.

Have you guys worked any on your GPS based AH implementation and considered including it for your latest offering?

Have a good one and keep 'em AGL!

Camship
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Old Sep 23, 2008, 11:25 AM
JettPilot's Avatar
Miami
Joined Apr 2005
9,545 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by camship
Bill,

I recently tested a GPS only Backup Artificial Horizon and Nav system for GA and was very impressed with it's performance.

Have you guys worked any on your GPS based AH implementation and considered including it for your latest offering?

Have a good one and keep 'em AGL!

Camship
That is a good idea, I would never use A GPS based horizon in my real plane, but it would be a great, small, inexpensive, and light solution for FPV. I would like to see someone do this.

JettPilot
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Old Sep 23, 2008, 11:53 AM
Registered User
Austin, TX
Joined Sep 2007
423 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by JettPilot
That is a good idea, I would never use A GPS based horizon in my real plane, but it would be a great, small, inexpensive, and light solution for FPV. I would like to see someone do this.

JettPilot
Interesting. Can somebody explain how a GPS based artificial horizon works since the GPS doesn't know anything about your pitch or roll?
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Old Sep 23, 2008, 03:19 PM
KJ4ZQE
Berzert's Avatar
Nashville, TN
Joined Nov 2007
354 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reckless Bill
Interesting. Can somebody explain how a GPS based artificial horizon works since the GPS doesn't know anything about your pitch or roll?
I assume the G-Force Expander could be used to measure pitch and roll. You need a gyro for detection, then it just needs to be interpreted graphically into an artificial horizon. The roll indicator Bill included looks like half the battle. Most of the artificial horizons in FPV OSD's don't seem that accurate. Trust me, I would love one. But it would have to be relatively accurate for me to try to use it. I have this grand dream in my head to shoot an approach at night and do a "carrier" style landing with a tail hook and arrestor cable. That would require some accuracy. Back to the topic at hand, I think this comes back to my mantra about flexibility. I think the data is there (via the G-Force Expander) therefore it *should* just be a matter of presenting the information differently. But I'm no expert, so please don't flame me if I'm wrong.
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Old Sep 23, 2008, 03:20 PM
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Berzert's Avatar
Nashville, TN
Joined Nov 2007
354 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by camship
Bill,

I recently tested a GPS only Backup Artificial Horizon and Nav system for GA and was very impressed with it's performance.

Have you guys worked any on your GPS based AH implementation and considered including it for your latest offering?

Have a good one and keep 'em AGL!

Camship
Do you have any links to videos of this product?
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Old Sep 23, 2008, 07:59 PM
Resistance is Futile
camship's Avatar
United States, FL, Panama City Beach
Joined Oct 2001
2,680 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Berzert
Do you have any links to videos of this product?
It is a software product called WinEFIS that runs on anything from a Palm, (PalmEFIS) to a PC and works pretty well. It is published along with a lot of other really great stuff by a company called Hangar B 17.

I just went to check their website and get no page. Possibly they are currently doing work on the page or it's gone. I am not sure.

There are several other companies that use this software/hardware to integrate with their own stuff, Zaon Flight Systems is one of them that has a product that integrates their Collision Avoidance System with WinEFIS and much more.

There are some really amazing things happening in GA that translate directly to FPV/UAV.

Hope that company is still around. I do have copies of the software and will try and make a video.

Have a good one,

Camship
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Old Sep 23, 2008, 10:24 PM
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CATPart's Avatar
Joined Mar 2008
493 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reckless Bill
Interesting. Can somebody explain how a GPS based artificial horizon works since the GPS doesn't know anything about your pitch or roll?
i'm going to take a stab at this one..perhaps the gps antenna orientation could be determined by the differential signal strengths of the various satellites it has locked. if the gps is antenna is mounted firmly on the plane then you could possibly infer the planes orientation from the last known. camship?
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Old Sep 24, 2008, 06:51 AM
Pseudo-Pilot
emagnee's Avatar
Grand Blanc, MI
Joined Oct 2005
130 Posts
Bill,
What's the status of your current OSD stock?
It's now the 24th, and your website still says it will be available ~20th.
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Old Sep 24, 2008, 06:58 AM
Resistance is Futile
camship's Avatar
United States, FL, Panama City Beach
Joined Oct 2001
2,680 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by CATPart
i'm going to take a stab at this one..perhaps the gps antenna orientation could be determined by the differential signal strengths of the various satellites it has locked. if the gps is antenna is mounted firmly on the plane then you could possibly infer the planes orientation from the last known. camship?
You are close to a system that has been in testing for a while. This experimental system uses a faceted GPS antenna apeture that is similar to an insects eye. This causes a "blanking" of some satellites while others become visible and attitude is derived from that. But alas, nothing as sophisticated as what you describe.

WinEFIS uses a lot of calculations based on rate of change in altitude, direction and speed. If the performance charateristics of the aircraft are a known value then a lot can be derived from the positional changes in 3D space.

If perhaps you are climbing at a specific rate then most likely the attitude of the aircraft is nose high. The rate of change will determine the amount of pitch change and show the appropriate changes in the AH.

It is easy to see where this can get you in trouble. Say perhaps you are in a thermal then the aircraft can be flying straight and level but the system "sees" this as a climb and "indicates" a nose high attitude.

To help solve this little puzzle the data available from GPS is much more than just position. In many instances the wind direction and speed are included in the GPS information in 50' "layers". Sailplane pilots have been using software for extracting this info for a few years since it is very important for duration soaring.

BTW, their website is back up; www.hangarb17.com

I am thinking of trying this with the GPS data stream from my on-board radio modems. The only thing I don't like is that it gets a bit "jerky" if there are only a few satellites visible. It would not work for aerobatics and such and would only be good for casual flight manuevers.

Hope this helps and sorry Bill for yammering on your thread. I know you guys do have an AH very similar to this already included in your PC software. I know your team is hard at work on something even better for us, right?

Camship

BTW, I am definately going to put the snag on your OSD PRO when it comes out!
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Old Sep 24, 2008, 10:11 AM
FPV Pilot
Crash9's Avatar
United States, MT, Missoula
Joined Mar 2006
1,264 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by emagnee
Bill,
What's the status of your current OSD stock?
It's now the 24th, and your website still says it will be available ~20th.
I just got one last week from here http://www.endurance-rc.com/ and there's a few other vendors out there like dpcav.com that still have them in stock
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Old Sep 24, 2008, 11:30 AM
Pseudo-Pilot
emagnee's Avatar
Grand Blanc, MI
Joined Oct 2005
130 Posts
Thanks, Crash9.

Hopefully I'll still be eligable for the upgrade to the "pro" since I didn't buy it directly from Eagle Tree!
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Old Sep 24, 2008, 12:08 PM
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Carlyle Harper's Avatar
Joined Feb 2007
1,278 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by emagnee
Bill,
What's the status of your current OSD stock?
It's now the 24th, and your website still says it will be available ~20th.
Was wondering the same thing.
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Old Sep 24, 2008, 04:49 PM
Pseudo-Pilot
emagnee's Avatar
Grand Blanc, MI
Joined Oct 2005
130 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carlyle Harper
Was wondering the same thing.

I just received an email from them saying " We hope to have inventory available sometime during the next month or so".

I just ordered from www.endurance-rc.com, They just don't have the GPS Expander in stock.

Eagle Tree also told me that I will still be eligable for the Pro upgrade.
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Old Sep 25, 2008, 12:27 AM
billpa's Avatar
Joined Nov 2003
4,906 Posts
Hi All,

First, thanks for the great feedback on the Pro! We are making lots of progress in development, and all the feedback will be incorporated where possible. Please keep it coming! I'll have more detailed responses on the feedback soon.

Regarding availability of the present OSD expander, we are supposed to receive the next shipment next week. It will take us a day or two to get all outstanding orders turned around.

Please contact your favorite Eagle Tree dealer for their stock status. Yes, regardless of where you buy the expander, the upgrade offer will apply!

Regards,

Bill, for Eagle Tree
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Old Sep 25, 2008, 03:59 PM
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saabguyspg's Avatar
Calgary Canada
Joined Jun 2006
4,904 Posts
Great News Bill, thanks again for all the quick responses, answering all questions in a timely manner.... I tell ya that is why people love Eagle Tree stuff so much.

I have a question though. I am waiting for the OSD pro unit to come out and seeing as that is not till Christmas will there be a new Vlogger coming out between now and then? I am wondering if I should buy the V-logger and use that till the osd comes or wait for the possible release of the next V-logger if it is coming soon?

Thanks!
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