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Old Sep 21, 2008, 01:02 PM
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Northern VA
Joined May 2007
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I agree with what appears to be everyone, that North up is annoying. The problem with GPS is that when they aren't moving, they can't tell which direction they are pointing. Jettpilot got it right when he said "to be able to be changed by the user to any heading they want as being up". That would need to be a setting for the user to adjust. The other option is the make the user walk in the direction they want to be "up", thus allowing the GPS to detect the proper direction.
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Old Sep 21, 2008, 02:01 PM
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bracky72's Avatar
Charles Town, WV
Joined Jan 2008
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Actually the proper way for it to work is the map rotates constantly so that your track is always pointing up. That is how a moving map works in a aircraft instrument panel.

Here is a garmin G1000 panel mount display for example. Notice the map is oriented so that the way the aircraft is facing is always pointing up.

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Old Sep 21, 2008, 04:39 PM
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Miami
Joined Apr 2005
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Quote:
Originally Posted by garris2
JettPilot, North Up has nothing to do with the way you are facing whilst sitting on the ground controlling your aircraft remotely and everything to do with the direction your aircraft is flying. .... I thought it was only women that turned the map so that north is somewhere else other than up.
Garris2,

You obviously do not have the experience to know what you are talking about. Given yoru statement, you have never flown the real airplanes you are talking about. I have been flying many types of Airplanes with moving map displays and the map is always track up, the direction you are facing. The multitrillion dollar aviation industry has done a lot of research in these displays for decades, and in human factors, and they have concluded that track up is the only way to go. With north up and have to go through additional mental steps to navigate... Not good, this is inviting mistakes. With track in front, what is to the right of your display is always to your right, and what is left is always to your left, there is NEVER any getting " Turned Around " as can happen with north up. It has nothing to do with women or men, it has to do with being smart enough to make things easy and intuitive.

In the Eagle Tree OSD with North Up, if you are facing south it would be confusing and a constant irritation. To see the RC plane depected in front of you on the OSD when it is really behind you, or to the left of you, would be inviting confusion. Sure some could get used to it, but it would be more difficult than it needs to be, and it would cause many many mistakes. If the plane is behind me, I want to see it displayed behind me on the map. I want to be concentrating on flying, not using my concentration on turning around maps in my head.
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Old Sep 21, 2008, 11:04 PM
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In the other OSDs I know how far away I am because of the distance number. I know when I am flying toward myself because the arrow will point up (or whatever). I think what you want this radar to be is "fly towards the dot and you will find yourself". maybe you should make the icon a little person. you could actually have other dots representing other waypoints (you are actually just a waypoint as well). so when flying you will simply turn until the desired waypoint turns to the top of the display, then you know you are flying towards it. as you get closer, the dot will move toward the center of the screen. maybe each waypoint icon could actually have the distance away number floating underneath it.
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Old Sep 21, 2008, 11:25 PM
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some beautiful photoshop work on my part! this is flying away from myself, and towards waypoint 1. the animation shows me turning away from waypoint 1 and heading toward myself for the trip home. the animation looks correct if you click on it, the little preview below looks funky.
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Old Sep 22, 2008, 01:26 AM
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Dornbirn / Austria
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I'm not sure why you compare this RADAR implementation to a moving map.
I guess it's called radar on purpose, and not map.

In your maps, the plane is fixed in the center, and the map moves - in the RADAR implementation the center is fixed, and the plane moves around, which doesn't result in any confuscation, it's just like flying in 3rd person view on a 2d pane..

The difference is the point of view, pilot in plane vs. pilot in tower, it wouldn't make any sense to move the map all the time for the pilot in tower - right?

Or did I get something wrong?
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Old Sep 22, 2008, 05:10 AM
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bracky72's Avatar
Charles Town, WV
Joined Jan 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by solars
I'm not sure why you compare this RADAR implementation to a moving map.
I guess it's called radar on purpose, and not map.

In your maps, the plane is fixed in the center, and the map moves - in the RADAR implementation the center is fixed, and the plane moves around, which doesn't result in any confuscation, it's just like flying in 3rd person view on a 2d pane..

The difference is the point of view, pilot in plane vs. pilot in tower, it wouldn't make any sense to move the map all the time for the pilot in tower - right?

Or did I get something wrong?

You are totally wrong. A radar screen in a plane always has the plane pointing forwards. That way you can see which direction the threat is relative to your current course.

When flying fpv we fly as the pilot in the plane not as the air traffic controller watching the plane from a distance.
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Old Sep 22, 2008, 05:46 AM
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France, Pays de la Loire, Briollay
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bracky72
You are totally wrong. A radar screen in a plane always has the plane pointing forwards. That way you can see which direction the threat is relative to your current course.
When flying fpv we fly as the pilot in the plane not as the air traffic controller watching the plane from a distance.
I think we are not refering to the same thing. In my opinion the "radar" feature is not something like in the real airplanes (we already have these informations with the arrow and the distance to home) but it's a sort of 2D map with the pilot at center and the position of the plane relative to the pilot. It's a sort of real-time google earth positioning.
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Old Sep 22, 2008, 05:58 AM
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Dornbirn / Austria
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bracky72
You are totally wrong. A radar screen in a plane always has the plane pointing forwards. That way you can see which direction the threat is relative to your current course.

When flying fpv we fly as the pilot in the plane not as the air traffic controller watching the plane from a distance.
as Samol explains, I'm not talking about a Radar screen in a plane, I'm talking about a Radar screen in the tower, which is what the OSD PRO obviously represents.

I think JettPilot simply understood it as an in-plane radar, and garris2 correction is right.
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Old Sep 22, 2008, 06:09 AM
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Charles Town, WV
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Ah I did not realize you were talking about a screen where no video image is showing. I would not use such a screen because I want to see where I'm going but now I understand.
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Old Sep 22, 2008, 01:33 PM
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Nashville, TN
Joined Nov 2007
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Bill:

The new OSD is really starting to come together! As we can see from the posts, everyone has a different opinion about what an OSD should be able to do. Therefore I believe flexibility is key. The enhanced graphics of the new OSD are appealing to me. I particularly like the "gas gauge" style battery indicator, the graphical compass, and the F-16 style altitude and speed indicators. Personally, I don't have an opinion on the orientation of the map / radar feature because I can fly both ways. But in the spirit of flexibility I agree that it should adjustable if possible. I would also encourage maximum ability to place the indicators where you want (which could manifest themselves in some very odd OSD configurations ). I would probably push the airspeed and altitude indicators to the edges of the video and place the compass top and center.

I am a big fan of Eagle Tree's eLogger. I have used it to determine flight times for new planes and batteries. I didn't fully appreciate the capabilities of the eLogger until I had one. I highly recommend that anyone considering an OSD fully weigh what exactly they want out of their system. For me Eagle Tree surpasses the competition because of the logging capability and barometric sensors. Other OSD's are so GPS centric that they turn me off a bit. The one thing that "was" lacking from Eagle Tree's OSD was a graphics. I think this new OSD will secure Eagle Tree's place at the head of the pack for some time.

I started a post on my blog about my quest to select the best OSD for my needs. I am planning to write a follow up because I think I have a winner. I encourage anyone to take a look at all the OSD's listed and draw your own conclusions:

http://matthew-rc-aircraft.blogspot....dream-osd.html

Matthew "Berzert"
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Old Sep 22, 2008, 02:38 PM
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Daemon's Avatar
Lakewood, Colorado
Joined Aug 2002
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You guys apparently can't see the forest for the trees with all
this radar orientation discussion.

When I saw that this OSD had this feature, the first thing I thought
was "Wow, what a handy way to know which direction to point my
patch antennas while I'm flying through the goggles."
That's only possible if the "radar" is ground based, fixed position
and the plane moves around that fixed position.

Sure you could have plane based radar that rotates and points
at home, but why bother? There's several other ways to
represent direction and distance to home that are more compact.
Keeping my antennas pointed at the plane however, can be a pain,
and this ground based radar display would help a lot.

The only thing different, I'd like to see is the ability to orient up to something
other than north, once after startup. The reason being that
it's often useful (especially when manipulating antennas while
flying) to be physically facing some direction other than north.
Flying with your back to a treeline or instance, or in my case on a windy
slope were facing straight upwind is necessary. If my slope faces East,
then I'd want the radar display to have East as up, but otherwise not
rotate while the plane is in flight.

ian
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Old Sep 22, 2008, 10:25 PM
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CATPart's Avatar
Joined Mar 2008
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good point ian. this feature as you describe it could still be compacted to a little rotating arrow that looks like the home arrows we usually see. still, the more i think about it the more this radar display makes sense the way it is. i guess it would be easy enough to offer both the moving map and the radar dispaly. it would be nice to have the option to play with them both.
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Old Sep 23, 2008, 02:41 AM
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Lincoln, CA
Joined Oct 2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Berzert
Bill:


I started a post on my blog about my quest to select the best OSD for my needs. I am planning to write a follow up because I think I have a winner. I encourage anyone to take a look at all the OSD's listed and draw your own conclusions:

http://matthew-rc-aircraft.blogspot....dream-osd.html

Matthew "Berzert"
WOW! Talk about a lot of information to absorb. You have done a superb job of assembling all the info and putting it in one place. Thank you so much for all the hours you have put into gathering all the necessary specs to make a personal OSD decision. Great, GREAT job Matthew! Thanks again.
AJ
P.S. I am going with the Eagle Tree stuff.
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Last edited by ajbaker; Sep 23, 2008 at 02:47 AM.
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Old Sep 23, 2008, 09:15 AM
JettPilot's Avatar
Miami
Joined Apr 2005
10,666 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daemon

The only thing different, I'd like to see is the ability to orient up to something
other than north, once after startup. The reason being that
it's often useful (especially when manipulating antennas while
flying) to be physically facing some direction other than north.

ian
Did you not read my first post this is EXACTLY what I was saying that brought on this whole north up discussion. You need to be able to configure the OSD Radar display so that when it displays the plane in front of you, that your plane is really in front of you and not behind you.

JettPilot
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