SMALL - espritmodel.com SMALL - Telemetry SMALL - Radio
Reply
Thread Tools
Old Sep 11, 2011, 01:41 AM
But often down to earth
Floater73's Avatar
Oklahoma, USA
Joined Sep 2010
736 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crist Rigotti View Post
Steve, That link doesn't show anything....help.
Crist,

I don't know what could be happening. It works for me. Here it is again as a single post.

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...1#post17108956


Here's the link to the thread. Mine is post #6613

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...1#post17106166

Steve
Floater73 is offline Find More Posts by Floater73
Reply With Quote
Sign up now
to remove ads between posts
Old Sep 11, 2011, 02:14 AM
But often down to earth
Floater73's Avatar
Oklahoma, USA
Joined Sep 2010
736 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crist Rigotti View Post
OK here's the video of my latest set up in my Skywalker. The heading during RTH is pretty close. I do have a little overshoot though. I did notice that when the SW hits cruise altitude of 500 feet and the motor comes on, the plane yaws to the right. After it hits the 1000 foot home radius the motor shuts off and the plane yaws back to the left.

http://youtu.be/LwTUpJ5ok_g
Crist,

Here's something that I noticed during the RTH portion of the flight.

Starting at 2:49 in the video you can see the plane yaw to the right pretty good. The OSD roll rate was around 0 until the yaw started. By 2:55 the OSD has countered most of the yaw error but not all so the heading is to the right of home. The RTH has a pretty good left roll command of around -500. The Guardian is working correctly to dampen the roll with values around 200. The OSD roll command is left and has to stay there to counteract the yaw being induced.

I don't recall if you have the OSD controlling the rudder or ailerons. I assume the ailerons. It's appears to me the rudder may have kicked to right causing right yaw. The OSD is trying to correct the heading error by trying to turn left. This is causing the plane to crab. The plane has a left roll command and would normally continue rolling left. But the yaw is counteracting the roll command. The course indicator shows the plane is actually going pretty straight but slowly turns left to get home. The OSD can't completely counteract the heading error induced by the yaw.

This lasts until about 3:29 and the yaw disappears and OSD roll rate returns to near 0. Is it possible there is something loose on the plane that could cause the yaw besides the rudder?

Does this make sense or am I all wet?

Steve
Floater73 is offline Find More Posts by Floater73
Last edited by Floater73; Sep 11, 2011 at 03:16 AM.
Reply With Quote
Old Sep 11, 2011, 04:21 AM
FPV junkie
m_beeson's Avatar
United States, UT
Joined Jan 2011
3,406 Posts
Like, not enough rubber bands on the wings? I've seen this on my plane.


Very insightful steve...
m_beeson is offline Find More Posts by m_beeson
Reply With Quote
Old Sep 11, 2011, 09:52 AM
First to go over 106K feet
Crist Rigotti's Avatar
United States, TX, Waxahachie
Joined Mar 2008
2,483 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Floater73 View Post
Crist,

I don't know what could be happening. It works for me. Here it is again as a single post.

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...1#post17108956


Here's the link to the thread. Mine is post #6613

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...1#post17106166

Steve
Listing the post number helped. thanks.
Crist Rigotti is offline Find More Posts by Crist Rigotti
Reply With Quote
Old Sep 11, 2011, 10:08 AM
First to go over 106K feet
Crist Rigotti's Avatar
United States, TX, Waxahachie
Joined Mar 2008
2,483 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Floater73 View Post
Crist,

Here's something that I noticed during the RTH portion of the flight.

Starting at 2:49 in the video you can see the plane yaw to the right pretty good. The OSD roll rate was around 0 until the yaw started. By 2:55 the OSD has countered most of the yaw error but not all so the heading is to the right of home. The RTH has a pretty good left roll command of around -500. The Guardian is working correctly to dampen the roll with values around 200. The OSD roll command is left and has to stay there to counteract the yaw being induced.

I don't recall if you have the OSD controlling the rudder or ailerons. I assume the ailerons. It's appears to me the rudder may have kicked to right causing right yaw. The OSD is trying to correct the heading error by trying to turn left. This is causing the plane to crab. The plane has a left roll command and would normally continue rolling left. But the yaw is counteracting the roll command. The course indicator shows the plane is actually going pretty straight but slowly turns left to get home. The OSD can't completely counteract the heading error induced by the yaw.

This lasts until about 3:29 and the yaw disappears and OSD roll rate returns to near 0. Is it possible there is something loose on the plane that could cause the yaw besides the rudder?

Does this make sense or am I all wet?

Steve
Steve,
Thanks for the observations.

The OSD controls the ailerons.

The rudder kicking to the right is probably due to motor torque. The rudder is not connected in anyway to the OSD. The reason it "settles" down and turns toward home is because my "Home" altitude is 100 feet lower than my cruise altitude and the motor has shut off to lose that 100 feet of altitude.

There is nothing loose on the airplane.

Not all wet at all. Your observations were spot on. I believe the yaw is caused by motor torque. When the plane hits crusie altitude (500 feet), the motor comes on and the plane yaws left. This continues to the home altitude and the motor shuts off. What I think I have to do is to reduce the "Climb" setting on the throttle from 3/4+ down to at the most 1/2 perhaps even 3/8 with a "Cruise" setting about 1/4.
I flew a flight this morning in dead calm air (to set the Guardian level) and it was apparent that was what was going on. As a matter of fact, the plane would yaw back and forth as the motor came on and off. Today should be another good day for test flying.

I have to admit, it was a whole lot easier to set up my F-20A. I liked having stabilized roll with the rudder controlling the direction to home. It seemed a lot easier to set up.
Crist Rigotti is offline Find More Posts by Crist Rigotti
Reply With Quote
Old Sep 11, 2011, 10:12 AM
First to go over 106K feet
Crist Rigotti's Avatar
United States, TX, Waxahachie
Joined Mar 2008
2,483 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by m_beeson View Post
Like, not enough rubber bands on the wings? I've seen this on my plane.


Very insightful steve...
Mike,
Good question. I'm using 4 rubber bands. Seeing it was near calm conditions and in a glide most of the way and airspeed was low, I doubt that it was the wing shifting.
Crist Rigotti is offline Find More Posts by Crist Rigotti
Reply With Quote
Old Sep 11, 2011, 01:49 PM
Long Range FPV'er
Joined Feb 2009
575 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crist Rigotti View Post

I have to admit, it was a whole lot easier to set up my F-20A. I liked having stabilized roll with the rudder controlling the direction to home. It seemed a lot easier to set up.
IMHO... Rudder should not be left out of the stabilization picture, nor the yaw aspect of steering the aircraft..

It makes more sense to me to have a combo mix of
rudder-to-aileron for better turning and stabilization of the aircraft.. And at least having the option to choose either one or both...
Mykro is offline Find More Posts by Mykro
RCG Plus Member
Reply With Quote
Old Sep 11, 2011, 01:52 PM
Registered User
balsabuster2004's Avatar
Washougal, Washington, United States
Joined Jan 2004
1,390 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crist Rigotti View Post
Mike,
Good question. I'm using 4 rubber bands. Seeing it was near calm conditions and in a glide most of the way and airspeed was low, I doubt that it was the wing shifting.
I don't know what your plane's total weight is, but it's pretty standard to use 2 rubber bands per lb. of plane.
balsabuster2004 is offline Find More Posts by balsabuster2004
Reply With Quote
Old Sep 11, 2011, 02:19 PM
But often down to earth
Floater73's Avatar
Oklahoma, USA
Joined Sep 2010
736 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crist Rigotti View Post
Steve,
Thanks for the observations.

The OSD controls the ailerons.

The rudder kicking to the right is probably due to motor torque. The rudder is not connected in anyway to the OSD. The reason it "settles" down and turns toward home is because my "Home" altitude is 100 feet lower than my cruise altitude and the motor has shut off to lose that 100 feet of altitude.

There is nothing loose on the airplane.

Not all wet at all. Your observations were spot on. I believe the yaw is caused by motor torque. When the plane hits cruise altitude (500 feet), the motor comes on and the plane yaws left. This continues to the home altitude and the motor shuts off. What I think I have to do is to reduce the "Climb" setting on the throttle from 3/4+ down to at the most 1/2 perhaps even 3/8 with a "Cruise" setting about 1/4.
I flew a flight this morning in dead calm air (to set the Guardian level) and it was apparent that was what was going on. As a matter of fact, the plane would yaw back and forth as the motor came on and off. Today should be another good day for test flying.

I have to admit, it was a whole lot easier to set up my F-20A. I liked having stabilized roll with the rudder controlling the direction to home. It seemed a lot easier to set up.
I didn't think of the motor. Sometimes (rarely) a committee can solve a problem. With hindsight several years ago the OSD could have included the rudder. But since you know what's happening it's not a big deal. The plane still comes home and the small heading error doesn't cost you too many milliamps. I don't think I would mess with it but you could change the offset in the motor.
Floater73 is offline Find More Posts by Floater73
Reply With Quote
Old Sep 11, 2011, 02:47 PM
First to go over 106K feet
Crist Rigotti's Avatar
United States, TX, Waxahachie
Joined Mar 2008
2,483 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Floater73 View Post
I didn't think of the motor. Sometimes (rarely) a committee can solve a problem. With hindsight several years ago the OSD could have included the rudder. But since you know what's happening it's not a big deal. The plane still comes home and the small heading error doesn't cost you too many milliamps. I don't think I would mess with it but you could change the offset in the motor.
Steve, Yeah, I was thinking of doing that.
Crist Rigotti is offline Find More Posts by Crist Rigotti
Reply With Quote
Old Sep 11, 2011, 03:37 PM
FPV junkie
m_beeson's Avatar
United States, UT
Joined Jan 2011
3,406 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crist Rigotti View Post
Mike,
Good question. I'm using 4 rubber bands. Seeing it was near calm conditions and in a glide most of the way and airspeed was low, I doubt that it was the wing shifting.
Hey Crist,

try running 8.

2 on each side, and 2 cris cross from each side.

I had my criss cross ones break, and accidentally ran 2 on each side, and 2 criss cross from one side.

It was breezy but I noticed some funky movement through the camera.

Replaced the other 2 and it went away.


of course I reinforced the center with thin ply, so hopefully it won't put too much stress on the foam without reinforcement.

I'd hate to make an analysis that ends up in failure...

m_beeson is offline Find More Posts by m_beeson
Last edited by m_beeson; Sep 11, 2011 at 03:47 PM.
Reply With Quote
Old Sep 11, 2011, 04:16 PM
Registered User
Joined Jan 2010
390 Posts
RTH misbehaving

Hya,

First couple of times that I tried my RTH it put the plane into a nose dive within 2 seconds... We're now past all that (the issue was excessive rudder input which made the plane to bank and dive).

Today for the first time RTH could turn the plane and also keep it going straight.

But it behaved a bit weird... so I'm hoping someone's experienced something similar before. All of the below was done flying 3rd person... There was a lot of wind admitedly (25kmh or so) which may have affected stuff...

Symptom 1:
- I took the plane to my right and engaged RTH. The plane turned towards me... and then kept on turning. Did a few 360s before I took control again.
- Did the same with the plane in a different position and again it just wanted to go round in circles

Symptom 2:
- Tried again and this time the plane turned around and started coming towards me (great!)
- Flew overhead and... kept on going
- I took control when it was quite far away

Any ideas?!
Protocrash is offline Find More Posts by Protocrash
Last edited by Protocrash; Sep 11, 2011 at 05:10 PM.
Reply With Quote
Old Sep 11, 2011, 04:26 PM
First to go over 106K feet
Crist Rigotti's Avatar
United States, TX, Waxahachie
Joined Mar 2008
2,483 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by m_beeson View Post
Hey Crist,

try running 8.

2 on each side, and 2 cris cross from each side.

I had my criss cross ones break, and accidentally ran 2 on each side, and 2 criss cross from one side.

It was breezy but I noticed some funky movement through the camera.

Replaced the other 2 and it went away.


of course I reinforced the center with thin ply, so hopefully it won't put too much stress on the foam without reinforcement.

I'd hate to make an analysis that ends up in failure...

I like that Mike. Next SW wll get that.
Crist Rigotti is offline Find More Posts by Crist Rigotti
Reply With Quote
Old Sep 11, 2011, 05:47 PM
FPV junkie
m_beeson's Avatar
United States, UT
Joined Jan 2011
3,406 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by newandaddicted View Post
Hya,

First couple of times that I tried my RTH it put the plane into a nose dive within 2 seconds... We're now past all that (the issue was excessive rudder input which made the plane to bank and dive).

Today for the first time RTH could turn the plane and also keep it going straight.

But it behaved a bit weird... so I'm hoping someone's experienced something similar before. All of the below was done flying 3rd person... There was a lot of wind admitedly (25kmh or so) which may have affected stuff...

Symptom 1:
- I took the plane to my right and engaged RTH. The plane turned towards me... and then kept on turning. Did a few 360s before I took control again.
- Did the same with the plane in a different position and again it just wanted to go round in circles

Symptom 2:
- Tried again and this time the plane turned around and started coming towards me (great!)
- Flew overhead and... kept on going
- I took control when it was quite far away

Any ideas?!
Post your settings from guardian menu, and safety menu
m_beeson is offline Find More Posts by m_beeson
Reply With Quote
Old Sep 11, 2011, 07:57 PM
Whats the wrst that can happn?
AdamChicago's Avatar
Chicago, IL USA
Joined May 2010
2,694 Posts
Has anyone run into the problem of main battery MAH not measuring accurate battery consumption? On 3 occasions out of about a dozen flights my main batt has lost power due to too low of voltage while the MAH reading on the OSD screen still showed about 25% battery left. When I measured the battery with a meter after the flight it was in the 13V range which is considered below 0% for a 4S

It's not that I'm trying to fly the battery down to zero but in all 3 cases it caught me by surprise before I was prepared to land.
AdamChicago is offline Find More Posts by AdamChicago
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Category Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
For Sale BRAND New CP Pro/with extra battery stgtech2 Aircraft - Electric - Helis (FS/W) 0 Sep 06, 2006 10:35 PM
New eolo pro glitches with cc60 aschen Electric Heli Talk 24 May 20, 2004 09:12 AM
FS New Piccolo Fun with bearing upgrade and HA tail motor Bud Morrison Aircraft - Electric - Airplanes (FS/W) 1 Mar 21, 2004 07:32 PM
For Sale: NEW Pic Pro rotor head with stiffening mod Eco8gator Aircraft - Electric - Airplanes (FS/W) 2 Jun 02, 2003 10:16 PM