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Old Sep 03, 2008, 11:55 PM
User Extraordinaire
Davao, Philippines
Joined Apr 2007
1,041 Posts
Mini-Review
THE OFFICIAL WING 450 V2/V1 THREAD - FAQ's, PIC's, VID's

Hello!

A full month had passed since I have been lurking around the boards researching my very first 6 channel heli. This review is from a newbie's POV, offering you a fresh look at the heli as compared to a seasoned vet that has helis lined up at his disposal, flies the living cr@# out of it, & barely has time for projects as elementary as a 450 size.

My heli experience is limited to a Lama V4, I've had it about 2 months & I felt that it was time to move up to a single rotor CP.

At first I thought of going with HBCP2 route, it's not a bad stepping stone, many pilots also went thru this route. Exchanging PM's & further research led to me to conclude that a motor driven tail could be a good step forward but a belt driven tail would be better. So a belt driven tail it is.

The 450 size seem to offer the most variety in electric helis, be it heli choice, aftermarket upgrade parts & LHS parts support, not to mention a price within reach to a newbie wanting to try out helis.

One model ALWAYS calls a newbie's attention in this size, for it's pricing & RTF package. Overall, a heli that flies most of the time, the model that you either love or hate , the BELT CP.
I would not be going through a Belt CP's strengths as it has 132 pages of it on the BELT CP thread(yup I read through those).

With the inherent design & build limitations of the Belt CP, I set off to find another candidate.
Enter the CopterX. Well this was a really good contender. Good alum parts, decent overall build & the most important, 99 to a 100% Trex compatibility. I thought hey, that's good as most LHS stock on Trex parts. Plus we've got GinoCP on the CopterX thread ready to check what wrong doings you might have done to your CPX. Oh btw, the CopterX thread has more pages than the BELT thread, so good luck!

Still I was in search of my heli, then came the GULANG models. Marketed here(where I'm at) as the Clone of the Clone(CopterX). These helis looks to be generic helis, they are probably made to be rebranded, the bananahobby Ninja450 is probably this heli. I don't know about you, but I would prefer to go with the ORIGINAL clone(CopterX), specially if they are priced about the same.

Another company enters the 450 size with the KDS450S RTF. It has strong ties with Gulang & is probably Gulang made rebranded as KDS. TachyonDriver was one of the first few people who got this model & I have been corresponding with him regarding this model ever since. The main difference of this model is the tail drive. Uses the belt directly from the main shaft instead of passing thru a 2nd gear that drives the belt. One important thing though, it has an all plastic head & tail, good thing is it looks to be Trex compatible. It is also priced just a tad higher than the BeltCP. This heli is ahead of the BeltCP(old version) in terms of design & electronics. Plus the canopy looks so bad ass.
However, it is close but no cigar.

Ahh the moment of truth...

After balancing the Pro's & Cons, this goes without saying balancing my budget, I finally decided on my first ever 6 channel heli. All things we're considered & this decision has the blessings from the nice people I've corresponded with in the span of my heli search. Thank you to everyone.

This is the model that I would be growing up with on this heli trip.
http://www.wingmodel.com/company.asp****SITE IS DOWN


Stay tuned.
Allan
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Old Sep 04, 2008, 11:03 AM
User Extraordinaire
Davao, Philippines
Joined Apr 2007
1,041 Posts
Photo Ops

WEEE it's here!





Pretty pics before I go ahead & get cozy with it.








"Moijiah" Proudly wearing the Philippine Flag ( *digital rendition, not official )




Starboard side updated look.




Specs List (RTF):

Radio: Wfly FT06-C at 36mghz PPM

Motor: Purple color I'm guessing E-sky 3800KV

ESC: Gulang CMX-40A-GL

Gyro: KDS 800

Servos: Tower pro SG90(blue)

Lipo: 11.1v 2200mah 20C generic



Photo Specs.

***NOTE***
Those tiny spots you see is how my camera sees it. Actually, the metal quality is A+. Very smooth even finish. No hard edges anywhere on the cnc cutting, very precise. I may be a newbie heli r/c'er, but I know good quality when I see one.

DETAIL UP CLOSE

Streamlined design blade grips.



Solid servo mounting blocks.



Another shot.



Flybar & flybar cage.



Right Cheek



Left Cheek



Neat & balanced placement.



Feast on the tail









Sceadu look-a-like shot.




VIDEOS:


I could post vids 1 thru 3 but I'm sure y'all just gonna get bored, all familiarization spool ups. Battery #4 is where things get interesting.


Out of the box:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sbqW5CGaeC8


Battery #4a - hover attempt:
Wing 450 V2 Battery#4a - Hover Attempt (10 min 21 sec)



Battery #4b - First controlled hover:
Wing 450 V2 Battery #4b - First controlled Hover (2 min 7 sec)


WING 450 V2 Battery #4b - First Controlled Hover (2 min 6 sec)



Battery #5 - First Outside hover:
Wing 450 V2 Battery#5 - First outdoor flight & Hover (7 min 41 sec)



Battery #6 - Indoor hover
Wing 450 V2 Battery#6b (4 min 47 sec)




Battery #7 - Tail Wag Issue
Wing 450 V2 Battery#7b - Tail Wag Issue (2 min 14 sec)




Battery #8 - Tail Wag tuning
Wing 450 V2 Battery #8 - Tail wag tuning (7 min 18 sec)




Battery #9 - Chatting While Flying ( it's the first time I had someone watch me fly, hence the macho hovering.hehe )
Wing 450 V2 Battery#9 - Chatting (3 min 59 sec)




Battery #10

This battery pack I call Revelation Flight.

I more or less, took out all the linkages in the head. Found out that some where snapped half way to cheat alignment. I've redone them all. It took me some time(8 hours ) but in this video, you can see the difference in stability. Plus of course an improvement on my flying ability.Hehe.

I also tweaked the tail for a good alignment, it was a good deal off when I got it.

The tail pitch slider. Now this has got me thinking since the start. Tail servo is binding with half stick RIGHT rudder input OUT OF THE BOX. Buzzing if you go over it. Needless to say, I don't have equal rudder throws. I learned to correct it mechanically, but I got negative tail blade pitch when I center the tail pitch slider on the tail shaft. So I need to set it LEFT of center(viewed from the tail) so I can I achieve positive tail pitch. By the way the tail blade linkages are shortest as they can be.

I've since learned how to use the Limiter on the gyro, that took care of the tail servo binding, but I still don't have equal throws.
I increased Delay to 20 & I think the Gyro setup is optimum now.

Also, the LED mod that I did. I'm so proud of this. I've always wanted my heli to have a light. And it doesn't weigh a thing. Marketing a RTF with a strobing light would be so sensible(hint ). Like a beacon, a marker, I think it also serves the purpose to a heli.
Just one bright strobe, not a Christmas light set.





I still don't have perfect blade tracking, working on it. That's for Battery #11.

Sum it up, this was the first tuning & mod job I did to the heli since I got it, that was like 2 days ago.

See how she fly's.
Wing 450 V2 Battery #10 - Revelation flight (7 min 0 sec)




Battery #11 - Night Flying
Wing 450 V2 Battery#11 - Night Flying (7 min 57 sec)




Battery #12 - Spot the Difference
This battery is a marker, like Mk1 or something, anything with a number.
Watch the vid in high quality so you'd see the branches waving behind. Handling is way different, but I like it!
WING 450 V2 Battery #12 - Spot the difference (5 min 37 sec)




Battery #15 - TURNS
Wing 450 V2 Battery #15 - TURNS (8 min 45 sec)


WING 450 V2 Battery #15 - TURNS (8 min 44 sec)




Battery #16 - ALMOST
Wing 450 V2 Battery #16 - Almost! (7 min 48 sec)




Battery #17 - I CAN FLY
It has been 8 days & 6 hours since I got my Moijiah.
Prior to her, I've only had my Lama for a month & a half. I have been doing FMS sim around 20 to 30 minutes a day since.
I only have 2 lipolies that I rotate. Between them I have used 17 batteries.
To date, this is only my 6th day of flying a 6 channel Collective Pitch heli.
The first three batteries were all familiarization spool ups. It's on the fourth battery where I actually "looked" like flying.
So 17 batteries total, minus 3 ground runs = 14 confirmed "flights".
14 flights in the span of 6 days averages around 2.25 flights a day.
I have been busy with her the past few days.

Just today it dawned on me like how it dawned on Tony Stark when he said.. " I can fly".

This video makes it official. Until today, I can now safely say, " I CAN FLY."
Battery #17 - I CAN FLY!
Wing 450 V2 Battery #17 - I CAN FLY! (8 min 59 sec)




Battery #18a Clear Blue Skies
Wing 450 V2 Battery #18a - Clear Blue Sky (1 min 55 sec)
]



It's a bit gloomy 30 minutes after.

Battery #19 - More Flying
Wing450 V2 Battery#19 - More Flying (7 min 41 sec)




Battery #23 - Heckler
Ah yes, someone heckling you while flying.
Here's a good example of messing with your head in the most subtle of ways. A friend can do that.
My latest video just this afternoon.

Wing 450 V2 Battery #23 - Heckler (4 min 12 sec)


Wing 450 V2 Battery #23 - Heckler (4 min 13 sec)




I did the Chinese tail weights mod.
First thing I noticed when I gave it a test fly, was a tail wag. I then knew it works.
This is because the gyro sensitivity was too high without the weights. I lessened the gyro gain & she now flies sweet. What happened was the tail servo now works half the load to center the tail blades. It is because the centrifugal force afforded by the weights helps in centering the blades. Overall, I noticed smoother tail control when all things were tuned right.
This mod is so easy, I highly recommend it.

Flight vid for the mod still uploading.

In the meantime, Enjoy my idle up practice in the cool moonlit night.
Battery #24 - Idle Ups
Wing 450 V2 Battery #24 - Idle Ups (7 min 52 sec)





Here it is..

Battery #25b - Tail Weights Mod maiden flight

WING 450 V2 Battery #26b - Tail Weights Mod maiden (5 min 19 sec)


Wing 450 V2 Battery #25b - Tail Weights Mod maiden (5 min 20 sec)


Flying in Idle up, dual rates & the tail weights mod.
Just doing more basics but with tighter turns & faster speed. Also more nose in hovers & approaches.
Also did my first 3D move, on the deck pitch pumps.hehe. Super sensitive.



CRASH #1

I finally did it Folks!

bent




Blades took most of the damage


Feathering shaft first of many



Did a rebuild that took me 20minutes.


Did I tell you NOT to fly indoors? Well I learned it. I got no video to show coz' I wasn't even flying.

It was that fast, first time seeing a crash. One second you're flying, in the blink of an eye, your heli is dead. No more flying.

Good I've got the parts that were damaged.

I guess I've made a full circle, I now know the feeling, it is NOT NICE. I ENGRAVED it in my head not to make the same mistake again. It was all my fault & I exactly know why. It is always AFTER that you feel how stupid & useless that was.


Now I need more parts.



Battery #27b - POST CRASH 2
OK. This is after I got too close to our Narra furniture. A stupid crash, but I learned from it. Just a quick hover to check if all is well.

WING 450 V2 Battery #27b - Post crash test hover 2 (1 min 3 sec)


Wing 450 V2 Battery #27 - Post CRASH 2 (1 min 4 sec)





*September 19, 2008
Here's what I've been doing with my heli.

I have since decreased the weights to this. The weights are very minimal, I found out that my motor heats up faster with the added weight. I think I've found a sweet spot with this setup. Still doing some test flights.



Here's a pic of the E-sky digital servo. Hacked from the Lama. My elevator TPSG9 just decided to give up while I was setting up ccpm. So I swapped the tail servo for uniform cyclic servos, then installed the E sky digital to the tail, time will tell if it will hold, I need more parts.



REINFORCEMENTS

First wave, second wave enroute.



Battery #29 - Just glad to be Flying
Wing 450 V2 Battery #29 - Just glad to be flying (6 min 3 sec)




Resuming flight sessions! ;D
Battery #31 - Semi-FFF

I went to the center of the course for a wider space to do FFF. It was such a rush. By the 4th pass my hands were shaking I needed to calm down to hover.

As usual, all my videos are left in RAW form to preserve the feel of the moment.

WING 450 V2 Battery #31b - Semi-FFF (2 min 26 sec)


http://www.youtube.com/my_videos

Just choose.

The full scale heli you hear on the background is a 2 seater R22 piloted by our Mayor. He just landed, probably to fetch his son, then took off again.
We've got the same flying field.




**FLIGHT LOG UPDATE - SEPTEMBER 24, 2008**


Let me just update my logs so I won't get lost with my details too.


I bought her September 04, 08'.

I got her September 05, 08', around 5 o'clock PM. I burned batteries 1 & 2 thru the night. Nice just to hear the motor & blades come alive the very first time.

September 06, 08', first thing in the morning I ran battery #3.
30 minutes after I PUT ON the training gear the very 1st time.
I then ran Battery #4 & somehow I HOVERED. ;D
This is the 2nd day that I got her.

I started to hover Sept. 6, & today is Sept. 24.

18 days later I have gone thru 31 batteries.
I have 28 flights & 1 crash.


Looking forward to future flights & new boundaries to break.

Allan

P.S.
I really do hope it's the boundaries I break often & not my heli.



Happy Flying!
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Old Sep 05, 2008, 02:58 AM
21st Century Space Cowboy
TachyonDriver's Avatar
Chipping, Lancs, UK
Joined Oct 2006
2,935 Posts
Sweet! - like you said, we have the same radio Carbon frames AND the gyro mounted underneath - great.

Happy flying!

Tach.
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Old Sep 05, 2008, 03:13 AM
Registered User
Joined Aug 2006
554 Posts
Hi, Looks nice -

How much is this heli? I can't find a price...
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Old Sep 05, 2008, 03:19 AM
Team Mulikow
Gino CP's Avatar
Manila, Philippines
Joined Oct 2006
9,564 Posts
I like the Sceadu-like canopy. Large and visible. I hope the local shop has spare canopies. I'd like one for my 450. Is that a direct fit for the Trex 450 and CopterX 450?
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Old Sep 05, 2008, 03:22 AM
User Extraordinaire
Davao, Philippines
Joined Apr 2007
1,041 Posts
Hey Tach!
I am soo happy that I have a heli. As we speak I've just finished my 4th battery, & I hovered a bit. Hihihi. I cheated. Radd would be yelling in RED CAPS!

I have dual rates for cyclic on mine, that's what it says. I haven't tried it yet though.
How's your 450? It's your backup bird I know, your primary is your rappy.


@ben1101
It's around the same price as a CopterX.


Gino Hello!
I think the Trex canopy fits the Wing & vise versa. Wilson says that MOST parts are Trex compatible. I'm sure what he meant was, with a little mod here, little mod there, parts will fit.
Wing has good quality parts though as from what spare parts I have, but I really wanna try those Align White Carbon blades. Also the Rappy like canopy of the KDS450S.

I'm still to add on this review guys.
Allan
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Old Sep 05, 2008, 05:15 AM
User Extraordinaire
Davao, Philippines
Joined Apr 2007
1,041 Posts
Edit**
I'm compiling everything on the first two post, videos included.

Thanks.
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Old Sep 05, 2008, 06:54 AM
BeeZaur 480
BowerR64's Avatar
Parkville Mo.
Joined Dec 2004
5,522 Posts
Man ide be scared to try learning on a 450 inside a home.
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Old Sep 05, 2008, 10:22 AM
User Extraordinaire
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Edit**
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Old Sep 06, 2008, 05:05 AM
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Davao, Philippines
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Edit**
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Old Sep 07, 2008, 04:19 AM
User Extraordinaire
Davao, Philippines
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Old Sep 07, 2008, 05:50 AM
21st Century Space Cowboy
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Chipping, Lancs, UK
Joined Oct 2006
2,935 Posts
Looks good!, but please try to be more gentle on the landings! I wouldn't want to land as hard as video 7 without trainng gear!

My KDS450? Just waiting for some belt tension rollers - then she'll be back in the air - weather permitting!

Tach.
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Old Sep 07, 2008, 07:36 AM
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Davao, Philippines
Joined Apr 2007
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Tach,

I'm still having a hard time timing landings, collective is so sensitive. The training gear can't come off till I get the landings nailed.

**Battery#7** - I flipped the throttle hold switch, I was trying an autorotation there(kinda)hehehe.

Allan
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Old Sep 07, 2008, 02:17 PM
User Extraordinaire
Davao, Philippines
Joined Apr 2007
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Updated vids Batteries 8 & 9.
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Old Sep 07, 2008, 02:45 PM
Registered User
Manila, Philippines
Joined Feb 2008
209 Posts
Allan,

I like the case! can you take some pics of the insides and how things are placed in it?
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