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Old Mar 03, 2009, 07:17 PM
More Trim
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Yak 55

Ok guys here it is. Finished and ready to fly. I just finished it tonight. I am going to take it out tomorrow and try it out. I hovered it in my shop and it did ok. I just need more room to see what she can do. Total weight is 8.5 oz. The thing is it weighs the same as Diggs. Thought that was pretty cool.
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Old Mar 03, 2009, 07:19 PM
14s 180mah should be enough...
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You should come up to Eden with Diggs on Friday, and fly it in the gym...with all the EPP around, it ought to be fun!!!

Tim
AG4RZ
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Old Mar 03, 2009, 07:23 PM
More Trim
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I would love to but I am self employed and I have to work. That is the down side of self employment. Sorry.
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Old Mar 03, 2009, 07:23 PM
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episode #84 and the big scary regulations

I think aerial photog and other commercial UAV applications are really cool, and advocating on their behalf is a noble endeavor on Patric's part.

[FLAME ON]

But to open the conversation and go on talking about how the 1110.150 would affect the "non-AMA member modeler" was not just uninformative, but disingenuous. Up until Diggs asked for Patric's background, well in, he sure sounded like he was advocating the position of the modeler, specifically the non-AMA modeler, but he's in fact an advocate (paid?) of the commercial applications. He never offered that info, and after disclosing it, he got back into his "protect the hobby" spiel, the wholesome hobby, sons, granddads, granddaughters, ...

The linked order, which if very brief, has the clearly stated goal to address the issues of commercial, paid, un-manned flight, and goes so far as to refer to the modeler-specific guidelines (AC 91-57) to distance itself from modeling. Trying to rally the "non-AMA member modeler" to the cause of resisting regulation of the commercial industries, without clear disclosure, is misleading. Go back and listen to how the AMA representative is described, as advocating narrowly "for the AMA membership." The group of concern which is left out is not the "non-AMA hobbyist," but the commercial UAV operators. (It's a different podcast if you've read the docs before you hear the talk.)

"Ask yourself, 'Would I be happy getting rid of my gliders...'" "Am I going to get a ticket...?" "Are they gonna take my stuff...?" "Why are you taking away my safe pass-time?" "What can I do about this...?"

Indeed, new regulations can leak out, and advance a bad trend, and modelers could be affected by the new commercial regulations now or later. Modelers should be informed and aware, and it's a good topic for a podcast.

But that's not what Patric brought to the show, and in my opinion, it was quite unfortunate. I would be more inclined to sympathize with the cause if it weren't wrapped up in such manipulation.

For all the talk about how safe the hobby is, the real (and interesting) question pertains to how safe commercial applications are, and what regulation is appropriate for them beyond the hobbyist guidelines. There was zero conversation about that, and it is the central thrust of the order.

From the "built in sense and avoid system" conversation, it sounded like he felt no restrictions were required. And kind of ironic that Patric seemed to even begrudge needing an AMA membership to fly commercial gear at a sanctioned field. The story about "diving" out of the way of a full-sized aircraft... as an argument for the build in safety mechanisms requiring no further regulation? DIVING?

And all the talk about Slo-Sticks, known to be a fan favorite, seemed pandering. We're talking camera aircraft here, not behind in front of flight lines, not flying a pattern, and definitely not a hobby.

This was not the "low down." There may be an issue about how this commercial regulation could impact modeling, but this wasn't the show where that was honestly and clearly explored.

So anyway, maybe others heard this all a different way, but it sounded like lobbyist BS to me. Maybe get somebody from the AMA to comment, and at least we'd get the modelers' lobbyist BS, which at least would be less backhanded, when presented to the ATTF audience.

[/FLAME]

Looking forward to listening to the PSC now... :-)

Jim
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Old Mar 03, 2009, 07:45 PM
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Jim,

Woah, not our intent at all! I was contacted by Lucien about this last week, and he told me about Patrick. Lucien and I talked about having him come on the show and discuss this. I really don't think there was a hidden agenda to this show at all, but I could be incorrect. The way the info was presented to me and they way we tried to present it on the show was very similar and without Patrick being involved. While nothing in any of the documentation clearly defines what legislation may come about, I feel with the way Government can twist a small issue into a huge issue, this certainly should be watched by anyone flying RC.

We didn't ask for money, we didn't ask for anything. We simply wanted to inform everyone of this and that it MIGHT impact on our hobby. They may continue with this and define it so that there is zero impact to modelers, and if that is the case, I will be happy and finished with the topic completely. Until I know that is the case, I will continue to inform everyone. I will also be happy for everyone to form their own opinion just as you did. However, I don't know Patrick, and only met him (online) minutes before the show, I don't feel he had a hidden agenda.

I will also say that the only intent of this episode is the same as all our shows, information and entertainment. I heard enough from Patrick and Lucien that I felt concerned for myself and fellow hobbyist. Whenever I hear something like that, I will be sharing the info.

Diggs
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Old Mar 03, 2009, 08:00 PM
Something Witty.
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United States, OK, Tulsa
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Quote:
Originally Posted by More Trim
The thing is it weighs the same as Diggs.
Damn, you couldn't find any lighter EPP?

I have one of these halfway built. Work has got in the way of finishing it.
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Old Mar 03, 2009, 08:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eddo22
Hey Lonelasso or JPC,
i happened upon your HDX500 vid today. Do you still have it? I was wondering how it matches up performance-wise to the trex500 or more importantly the Protos. it looks affordable for a 500, but how does it stack up?
Thanks,
Ed
Ed,
Sorry for the slow reply The HDX500 SAH impressed me from the very beginning, but as time went by, I (and Chris) realized it needed major changes to get the most out of it. Of course....the Trex500 wasn't out and there weren't many '500' class helis available (affordable is the key word). If you've not seen it, here's my build thread for my HDX500 SAH
As for which would be 'better' now, I'll defer to Chris or James My personal preference if I were to buy another 'affordable' 430MM class...Protos

Dave
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Old Mar 03, 2009, 08:09 PM
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Brother Diggs,

Be sure to understand that I have no fault at all with the show, its intent, the hosts, etc.

I just think Patric was an advocate who wasn't very upfront about it.

Like I said, there could be impact on modeling, and it's worthy of awareness and discussion, but I really didn't like the way Patric couched his position as being modeler advocacy, when in fact he's on a different mission.

I can even support what he's advocating, but his approach really grated on me.

I thought that when you stepped in to ask him about his background, it was kind of the nick of time. Go back and listen to those first few minutes and let me know if you get any sense that the order is talking about regulating commercial applications, or that Patric works in advocacy of those interests.

I think he would have been very well advised to make about a 30 second prelude, disclosing his vested interests, and then making a linkage to how his concerns and those of modelers might be aligned. But au contraire...

I don't think you guys were playing any kind of game. It sounded to me like you guys reasonably thought the order was primarily about modeling and modeling safety.

Anyway...
Jim
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Old Mar 03, 2009, 08:28 PM
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That's cool. I didn't have any problem with your post or position. I am glad you made the post. I like to hear all angles. I haven't listened to the edited version of the show. That may have something to do with it. The way we started on the show is probably very different from the way it came out. We all jumped online and started chatting with tape rolling so to speak and Patrick laid out a ton of info. I felt like the way it was presented was hard for anyone to follow so we started over. I am sure it was a bear for Jamie to edit this episode due to the huge amount of content. And how it came out online and during the taping maybe very different.

Also, I need to mention that this does affect another portion of the modelling community. I am pretty sure these articles are also being used for the UAV group that isn't commercial at all. Anyway, I am glad you posted and I took no offense. I just wanted to explain our position and goal for this episode so no one would misunderstand. There are too many agendas out there in this big world we live in, and mine is to have fun flying and share that fun with my fellow hobbyist. So far, I haven't figured out a method for world domination

Diggs
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Old Mar 03, 2009, 08:35 PM
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Well Jim.. really.. it's the editors fault. That part was SUPPOSE to be up front, but we started with an explanation as to what is going on to ME, then Diggs wanted to backup and start the show. I didn't want to have everybody say what has already been said.. so I started with the explanation to me, then the real beginning..

It's just good to get light as to thoughts out there of these new things.
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Old Mar 03, 2009, 08:48 PM
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Dude, that show had to be a job to edit. We had a ton of content and it jumped around a lot. I wanted a smooth transistion from who everyone was, to the proposals, to how it could affect us all. But the way it was discussed, it would have taken ages to lay it out that way for the show. Thanks for taking the time you do each week to edit it. I am sure it is a ton of work, and it doesn't go unappreciated.

Diggs
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Old Mar 03, 2009, 08:59 PM
Ook!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by More Trim
The thing is it weighs the same as Diggs. Thought that was pretty cool.
Must have one bad ass LiPo if it weighs the same as Diggs

edit: crap, someone beat me to it. Oh well, it's not often you get a good chance to have a dig at Diggs
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Old Mar 03, 2009, 09:03 PM
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Yeah, they are chunky with the 610 3S lipo. And we tend to be a bit heavy handed on the hotglue also. The 460 2S pack should help it shed an ounce or so. But it should be good to go for outdoors at this weight.

Diggs
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Old Mar 03, 2009, 09:05 PM
Ook!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Diggs
Yeah, they are chunky with the 610 3S lipo. And we tend to be a bit heavy handed on the hotglue also. The 460 2S pack should help it shed an ounce or so. But it should be good to go for outdoors at this weight.

Diggs
Woosh!
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Old Mar 03, 2009, 09:35 PM
Crashologist
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Diggs
Dude, that show had to be a job to edit. We had a ton of content and it jumped around a lot. I wanted a smooth transistion from who everyone was, to the proposals, to how it could affect us all. But the way it was discussed, it would have taken ages to lay it out that way for the show. Thanks for taking the time you do each week to edit it. I am sure it is a ton of work, and it doesn't go unappreciated.

Diggs
I second that, thank you all for your efforts!!
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