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Old Oct 22, 2012, 11:25 AM
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Taiwan, 北市
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OK I haven't taken other photos yet, but here's the amount of down trim I need to get it to fly level. Is this normal?

Kevin
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Old Oct 22, 2012, 11:26 AM
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Originally Posted by kchen95 View Post
OK I haven't taken other photos yet, but here's the amount of down trim I need to get it to fly level. Is this normal?

Kevin
That looks about right....
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Old Oct 22, 2012, 11:42 AM
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Originally Posted by JetPlaneFlyer View Post
Kevin,
I went on (and on) about the CG a few pages back. It seems to be subject of some dis pure as some swear by the factory 57- 60mm CG.
Personally I found the CG had to be in the 47-48mm range for neutral trim. Even at that you might find that it climbs a little when inverted with low throttle, but at about 75% power it should fly level. You will need to be closer to 45mm to get a trim that needs a hint of down when inverted.

Are you using especially light batteries by any chance? Mine balances at 47mm with the rear of the battery about 20mm from the back edge of the tray and the front of the battery maybe 20mm from the firewall.

I'm using the stock battery and some Turnigy batteries, which are about 20g heavier than the stock battery. In both cases, I push the battery as far front as it will go, and the CG seems to be around 47-48mm.

But it's interesting you say that when inverted, it will still climb a little in low throttle - think low throttle was actually what I was doing. I had thought that the climb would get worse if I throttle up - kinda like in upright when most planes have a tendency to claim with higher throttle? If it's the opposite with inverted, maybe I'll try flying inverted with higher throttle and see how it goes.

The other thing I'm confused by is, if this plane needs a lot of down trim to fly level when upright, doesn't the down trim also cause the plane to climb when inverted?

Tks again for all the advice!

Kevin
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Old Oct 22, 2012, 12:06 PM
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Aberdeen
Joined Mar 2006
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Biplanes do have some unique peculiarities I think if you do your inverted test at higher throttle you will find it flies level, I know mine does.

Your down elevator trim seems to be the standard amount that's required on the AMR. You would think it would make the plane climb when inverted but it doesn't seem to, at least not if you have reasonable power on and the CG is in the 47-48mm range.

The down elevator does lead to strong pitch coupling in knife edge. I've got about 18% up elevator with rudder to mix out the KE tuck (the manual has an error on this point as it says to mix in down elevator)
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Old Oct 22, 2012, 01:21 PM
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United States, OH, Canal Winchester
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Mine uses about the same amount of down trim. Most bipes need some down.
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Old Oct 22, 2012, 02:24 PM
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looks all good to me
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Old Oct 22, 2012, 02:56 PM
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It’s that time of the year again and PA Batteries Week is ON.
We are offering a special (once a year only!) discount
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These top quality battery packs will last and last and last..

www.PrecisionAerobatics.com
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Old Oct 22, 2012, 06:55 PM
The Earth got in the way!
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United States, OH, Canal Winchester
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Crashed mine today. Not much damage. Really to just a wing tip. It's pretty much destroyed at the tip. I can't believe a new lover wing is $75. Guess I'll do my best to fit it the best I can....
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Old Oct 22, 2012, 07:12 PM
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The wings are the most complex part as far as build and materials go.

Hope you get it sorted ok. It's worth giving it a shot but good to know if you can't then spares are available. Which is better than some manufacturers.
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Old Oct 22, 2012, 11:08 PM
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No, I know. At least I don't need to buy a whole new ARF and I can buy parts if needed.

My point though is if you look at PA's parts list though the sum of the parts is more than the ARF. Why is 1 top wing $74.95 and 1 bottom wing is $74.95 but both bought together are $125.95....?

I'm trying to fix it and I'll see how strong it is in the morning.
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Old Oct 23, 2012, 12:24 AM
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Originally Posted by kuczy View Post
No, I know. At least I don't need to buy a whole new ARF and I can buy parts if needed.

My point though is if you look at PA's parts list though the sum of the parts is more than the ARF. Why is 1 top wing $74.95 and 1 bottom wing is $74.95 but both bought together are $125.95....?

I'm trying to fix it and I'll see how strong it is in the morning.
One of the oldest marketing tricks on the book
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Old Oct 23, 2012, 10:45 AM
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Originally Posted by kuczy View Post
Why is 1 top wing $74.95 and 1 bottom wing is $74.95 but both bought together are $125.95....?

If it makes you feel any better, I turned a wing half on my cub into toothpicks...

One wing half for Hangar-9 1/4 scale J-3 Cub = $210

A single roll of fabric covering to match what is applied to the rest of the plane = $65 per roll

Hours projected to remove monokote, prep surface, apply fabric, fabricate and apply stitching and panel details = approx hours
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Old Oct 23, 2012, 11:05 AM
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Originally Posted by kchen95 View Post
The other thing I'm confused by is, if this plane needs a lot of down trim to fly level when upright, doesn't the down trim also cause the plane to climb when inverted?

Tks again for all the advice!

Kevin
Hi Kevin, Taipei in my hometown but I have not visited there for a couple of years. Where did you get PA stuff in Taiwan? Where can you fly this beauty? Are there many 3D pilots there? Sorry to ask so many questions but I probably will have a business trip to Taipei in near future.

Back to the topic, I do not have AMR (really want one), but I do have two Pitts special and one Ultimate, like others said already, trimming a bipe sometimes is tricky. I found that I could play around the upper ailerons to erase unwanted pitching up or down but not affect the flying characteristics much.

Good luck!

Vince
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Old Oct 24, 2012, 12:44 AM
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Taiwan, 北市
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Originally Posted by Vince_TT View Post
Hi Kevin, Taipei in my hometown but I have not visited there for a couple of years. Where did you get PA stuff in Taiwan? Where can you fly this beauty? Are there many 3D pilots there? Sorry to ask so many questions but I probably will have a business trip to Taipei in near future.

Back to the topic, I do not have AMR (really want one), but I do have two Pitts special and one Ultimate, like others said already, trimming a bipe sometimes is tricky. I found that I could play around the upper ailerons to erase unwanted pitching up or down but not affect the flying characteristics much.

Good luck!

Vince
VInce, do I read your profile correctly that in addition to being from Taipei, you're now living in Philly? I'm actually a Philly guy (Valley Forge) who's now living in Taipei! Whenever you come out to Taipei, please do give me a shout and we can go flying. The best flying field in Taipei is at an area called Xin Chuang, where there is a paved runaway that was just paved two weeks ago. And yes there are a lot of 3D pilots here.

I actually ordered my PA Ultimate directly from Australia - with a hefty EMS shipping cost of around US$80. I believe there are a couple vendors in Singapore and Malaysia that sell PA planes, but with their mark-ups in price, I thought I was better off just ordering directly from Australia - it was a b-day gift from my wife, so I could afford to splurge a bit

Yeah I'm definitely finding the setup to this Ultimate somewhat tricky in trying to get it to fly exactly right. It's a bit of a surprise because back in Valley Forge, I built and flew the E-Flite Ultimate, which I thought was supposed to be the poor man's version of PA Ultimate, but that thing set up easily like a normal plane, with slight nose-heavy configuration and slight nosedive when inverted. Having said that, I'm guessing the tradoff is that the E-Flite Ultimate probably will not perform as well as the PA Ultimate when/if I graduate to more aggressive 3D flying.

It's a pleasure to meet a fellow Philly/Taipei pilot! Again, let me know when you plan to come out to Taipei.

Kevin
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Old Oct 24, 2012, 12:53 AM
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United States, OH, Canal Winchester
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Repaired and ready to fly again. I'll just airbrush the stripes back on tomorrow.

Before





After


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