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Old Apr 04, 2012, 01:42 PM
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Originally Posted by thesteam View Post
Hi Steve, Can you elaborate on this a little? It sounds to me like you are saying to position the elevator with some down in it, rather than even with the horizontall stab. Is that right?

Thanks.

Doug
if i remember correctly, yeah, level flight as opposed from most monoplanes, requires down trim... im not smart in aerodynamics but thats something about upper wing drag, its not NESSECARY upon building, you can easily trim it out, but still..
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Old Apr 04, 2012, 01:43 PM
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doooh... you beat me to that!
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Old Apr 04, 2012, 06:23 PM
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actually i forgot to add 2 things... my timer was set @6min, and i set my landing approach at 5, so i landed around 5.30-5.45 and with 13x6 prop, batteries had came down @11.6-11.9V.. so i might guess, i MIGHT start my landing approach at 6min, and still be ok..

and another thing...yeah, colour scheme looks GREAT on the ground, or when flying withing 2 football field space... but if i want to fly further, its VERY hard to distinguish top from bottom wing... they both are red and i actually almost lost the plane once... (and after that i stopped flying so far! )
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Old Apr 04, 2012, 06:48 PM
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Originally Posted by rimaarts View Post
actually i forgot to add 2 things... my timer was set @6min, and i set my landing approach at 5, so i landed around 5.30-5.45 and with 13x6 prop, batteries had came down @11.6-11.9V.. so i might guess, i MIGHT start my landing approach at 6min, and still be ok..

and another thing...yeah, colour scheme looks GREAT on the ground, or when flying withing 2 football field space... but if i want to fly further, its VERY hard to distinguish top from bottom wing... they both are red and i actually almost lost the plane once... (and after that i stopped flying so far! )
I noticed that in the videos I saw of others flying the plane. I'm tempted to re-cover the top of the top wing black, to match the bottom of the bottom wing.

The other idea I had was to add 3 or 4 more white stripes to the bottom of the bottom wing.
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Old Apr 04, 2012, 06:50 PM
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but the best idea wich requires no recowering is ''FLY LOW' and you will have no problems with orientation!

ooh, and one more strange thing i noticed... altough my elevator is 45* (as much as fuse openings allow), i cant get that growling, fuse tearing KE spin, wich was trademark for me on all 3dhs planes... all i can do is make plane do like 50cm circles in a KE attitude...
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Old Apr 04, 2012, 07:06 PM
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Originally Posted by rimaarts View Post
but the best idea wich requires no recowering is ''FLY LOW' and you will have no problems with orientation!

ooh, and one more strange thing i noticed... altough my elevator is 45* (as much as fuse openings allow), i cant get that growling, fuse tearing KE spin, wich was trademark for me on all 3dhs planes... all i can do is make plane do like 50cm circles in a KE attitude...
From what I've heard, few planes can spin like 3dhs and EF planes... but I'm reserving judgement until I get mine in the air. I'm not at that build step yet, but I will definitely cut away balsa to allow more elevator deflection if the fuse seems to be restricting it.

CG may be a factor for you also. Are you at "neutral"?
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Old Apr 04, 2012, 08:36 PM
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Originally Posted by rimaarts View Post
soo..im just back from maiden...

one thing really creeps me out about this plane... im using 13x6.5 and even than every time i pulse throttle up, plane really dips left wing (torquing?) on a punch out moment, altough when speed is estabilished, it flies straight and true(nothing i couldnt blame on my fingers or would feel uncomfortable dealing with) only on punchh out moment...

with this prop, motor came down barely warm even after 3 non stop flights so if not the torquing, i would definetely try a 14x7..
What brand prop are you using? Torque roll effects really have as much to do with the weight of the spinning disc as the diameter. So you may find an APC 13x6.5 would have more torque effect than say a Xoar or Vox 14x7, since they are a lighter prop.
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Old Apr 04, 2012, 10:37 PM
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Just added some top-bottom differential aid!
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Old Apr 04, 2012, 11:01 PM
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Just added some top-bottom differential aid!
Another view
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Old Apr 04, 2012, 11:53 PM
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Originally Posted by luke352 View Post
What brand prop are you using? Torque roll effects really have as much to do with the weight of the spinning disc as the diameter. So you may find an APC 13x6.5 would have more torque effect than say a Xoar or Vox 14x7, since they are a lighter prop.
Actually the weight of the prop makes no difference at all to how much torque there is. It's the motor that produces torque, not the prop

A heavier prop may produce more gyroscopic effect (gyroscopic procession) and may be a little slower to spool up.. but torque wont change.
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Old Apr 05, 2012, 12:12 AM
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Originally Posted by JetPlaneFlyer View Post
Actually the weight of the prop makes no difference at all to how much torque there is. It's the motor that produces torque, not the prop

A heavier prop may produce more gyroscopic effect (gyroscopic procession) and may be a little slower to spool up.. but torque wont change.
Yep, quite aware of that. Just wanted to keep the terminology the same for the poster despite his terminology being wrong.

Doesn't change the result though, all else being equal two discs of the same size but different weights the heavier one will produce a greater reaction from the airframe.
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Old Apr 05, 2012, 02:14 AM
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Originally Posted by -= GYRO =- View Post
From what I've heard, few planes can spin like 3dhs and EF planes... but I'm reserving judgement until I get mine in the air. I'm not at that build step yet, but I will definitely cut away balsa to allow more elevator deflection if the fuse seems to be restricting it.

CG may be a factor for you also. Are you at "neutral"?
The AMR does really tight and violent KE spins without cutting to allow for more than 45 of deflection on the elevator. Watch some of the MRC Mafia videos, can't remember off hand which of the videos has the best KE spin footage but I'll go through them and post a link later

RC Oasis 3 - The 3D Democracy (23 min 15 sec)
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Old Apr 05, 2012, 06:54 AM
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Originally Posted by -= GYRO =- View Post
Just added some top-bottom differential aid!
That will be VERY HELPFUL! I found the red ultimate difficult to differentiate. I added a LARGE stripe on the bottom because the two small stripes were not enough.
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Old Apr 05, 2012, 02:15 PM
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Originally Posted by JetPlaneFlyer View Post
Doug,

Yes exactly right. the manual even tells you about it, see 'Flight trimming' on page 19:


about 5mm down at the TE of the elevator should get you close for the maiden. personally i think that PA should have adjusted the angle of the tail slot to give the required 'down elevator' while having the actual elevator set straight relative to the fixed part of the tail. i actually thought of cutting the tail out and adjusting but then i decided it was too much work. If I was building a new one today that's exactly what i would do though.

Just another AMR quirk, it takes nothing away from the flying performance.

Steve

PS.. and it's nothing to so with the drag of the upper wing
Thanks Steve.
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Old Apr 05, 2012, 09:32 PM
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All finished with the build. Just have to balance her out and mark the spot.
I cut away a fair amount of balsa that was restricting elevator movement. I'm getting a TON now! :-)
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