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Old Aug 25, 2011, 12:54 PM
A posse ad esse
United States, FL, Tampa
Joined Feb 2011
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Shaun

While you are here discussing the testing of Thrust motors, was hoping you might see this post...is there any possibility Precision Aerobatics might rethink and reconsider the policy of publishing the user manuals for each aircraft online rather or in addition to including them as a hard copy in the kit box? I would be very pleased to have access to the manual online rather than have a hard copy with my airframe kit.
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Old Aug 25, 2011, 01:05 PM
They Call him Dead!
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Originally Posted by daddyrabbit1954 View Post
shaun

while you are here discussing the testing of thrust motors, was hoping you might see this post...is there any possibility precision aerobatics might rethink and reconsider the policy of publishing the user manuals for each aircraft online rather or in addition to including them as a hard copy in the kit box? I would be very pleased to have access to the manual online rather than have a hard copy with my airframe kit.
+1 !!!!
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Old Aug 25, 2011, 01:14 PM
DFC~ We Do Flyin' Right
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Or... you could help the environment by eliminating the paper manual, I would like to see it online as well, then builders can choose if they want to print or just read off the computer.

The 2 biggest benefits I see are:

a) many persons (myself included) like to read through a manual before they purchase a product to be sure they have the wherewithal (skill set) to get the job done. I believe that if more people had the opportunity to see how simple your builds are, there would be a potential for a noticeable increase in your sales.

b) some of us builders have eyes that are going bad (myself included) and being able to put text and pictures on the computer makes it much easier and faster to build an aircraft. On the computer, I can enhance pictures and zoom into see the details of a thumbnail picture, I can enlarge the print so that it is not a strain on my eyes as well. Moreover, with an online manual I can search for particular steps I may have missed or just skip directly to a section like "Radio Programming."

And lastly; environmental impact (which I happen to care the least about). Think of how many of us seasoned PA builders just glance at the CG & Suggested throws data and get right into building... I appreciate the design of the manuals and have not had many issues with builds; IMO I just find them unnecessary when you consider how much more cost affective it is to publish online versus a printed version. On top of that, it would not cost you any more to do an online manual in color, unlike the printed version where there is an additional cost for printing color...


I have always had a complaint about this; has anyone at PA ever disclosed why they do not make manuals public? If there is a reason, I would be curious to know why they made this decision...
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Old Aug 25, 2011, 01:41 PM
Grumpy old git.. Who me?
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+3 for the downloadable manual

thinking more about testing. Seems like the variable of the airframe and flying style is something that is held up as a cause for the comparison between my tests and those done by PA on their IPA system to be 'invalid'..

It's pretty easy to take airframe and flying style out of the equation and that's by doing static test.. so that's what I've just done.

Thrust 40 /IPA package test results (on Vox 14x7):
Max watts: 425W
Max Amps: 38A
Max RPM: 7215


My test (Hacker A30-14L/CC ICE50/Nanotech (JXF/Xoar 14x7):
Max watts: 455W
Max Amps: 41.2A
Max RPM: 7011

This shows the Thrust 40/IPA nosing in front om RPM. Watts are a bit less for the thrust too so score one for IPA

Steve
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Old Aug 25, 2011, 02:36 PM
Grumpy old git.. Who me?
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ok.. i need to eat some big slices of humble pie.. Shaun's comment about the RPM being off made me go check the logger settings. My motor is 14 pole and i'd previously set that in the Castle settings but somehow the logger had re-set itself to 12 pole

I'm not sure when this occurred but i have to assume that all the log data is out by a factor of 14/12

I'll go back and edit the RPM in my tests.. based on this corrected data the Thrust 40 is indeed pulling more RPM than the Hacker, as the kv rating would suggest.

I'll now go away and crawl under a rock....
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Old Aug 25, 2011, 04:18 PM
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LOL! Dont sweat it; all the data is useful to know, with your new results it just kinda verified what we knew all along
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Old Aug 26, 2011, 10:27 AM
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Lol, no worries, but this confirms the T40 is an amazing motor, rocks on 3S, and a true monster on 4S!!!
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Old Aug 26, 2011, 11:52 AM
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Originally Posted by aerofundan View Post
Lol, no worries, but this confirms the T40 is an amazing motor, rocks on 3S, and a true monster on 4S!!!
Dan, have you flown the ultimate on 4s? I would expect it would rip the front end out LOL!
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Old Aug 26, 2011, 01:35 PM
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lol, to be honest, i don't think the 4S is recommended for the Ultimate AMR, it would be waaaay too much power! and the Ultiamte AMR with the T40 and 3S already feels like 4s power!!! the only plane PA recommends 4S is for the Bandit the motorbox is built similar to the Addiction X, and there you can also use 3S just perfectly.... But remember the Bandit is a much bigger plane than the Ultimate AMR! and it weights 42 - 46 oz depending on battery!
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Old Aug 26, 2011, 08:09 PM
How many planes is too many?
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+4 for downloadable manuals. 3DHS, EF and Sebart do it, so why not PA?
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Old Aug 27, 2011, 09:20 AM
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Sydney Australia
Joined Jun 2004
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JetPlaneFlyer View Post
ok.. i need to eat some big slices of humble pie.. Shaun's comment about the RPM being off made me go check the logger settings. My motor is 14 pole and i'd previously set that in the Castle settings but somehow the logger had re-set itself to 12 pole

I'm not sure when this occurred but i have to assume that all the log data is out by a factor of 14/12

I'll go back and edit the RPM in my tests.. based on this corrected data the Thrust 40 is indeed pulling more RPM than the Hacker, as the kv rating would suggest.

I'll now go away and crawl under a rock....



LOL

Actually the rpm now with the newer battery and ESC is higher. I know I need to update the datasheets but man this task is so tedious when done over and over again. I told the factory to stop improving the batteries LOL (seriously!)
Let's face it, what is the point going nuts with the silly C rates? It gets to a point that it has no sense. How many amps would you run a 2,200mAh 3S pack?

I know it is silly coming from me, but the Thrust motors are very hard to beat. They are amazing value for money with killer performance, high efficiency and price. One of the things we have established with our line of motors/ESC is the stability in performance over time. In other words, there are some motors (and we have tested many over time) that may provide reasonable performance at start (even though on low efficiency) but that deteriorates rapidly. Very quick you find yourself straggling to 3D. You will not have it with the Thrust motors. Again, this is our observation over long period of time with quite a bit of abuse to our motors I must say!

Keep in mind; we are not conservative with the prop selection as other brands either. Something that puts our motor in extra stress.

P.S we got an amazing review in German from one of the toughest reviewer on the RC. From what I have heard most companies donít dare sending him stuff for review as he would put any tiny flaw on the paper and is not afraid to bash. We were confident enough to send our gear and got a great review.
If you read German http://www.precisionaerobatics.com/u...rustMotors.pdf

BTW i strongly recomend you to swap the APC14x7E as it is too much for the AMR.

Shaun
Precision Aerobatics Team
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Old Aug 27, 2011, 12:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Precision Aerob View Post

...stability in performance over time.
I have been flying the same T40 for 3+years and it continues to be one of my favorite motors.
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Old Aug 27, 2011, 05:05 PM
The SteamRoller
USA, CA, Fort Bragg
Joined Oct 2009
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+5 for downloadable manuals.

If nothing else, Shaun, could you at least address this issue here?

SSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS
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Old Aug 28, 2011, 02:00 AM
It's All About Having Fun!
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Dan, have you flown the ultimate on 4s? I would expect it would rip the front end out LOL!
Well, we have tried over here, at least one of us did, yupe, rip the front out clean ...
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Old Sep 02, 2011, 07:40 AM
Precision Aerob's Avatar
Sydney Australia
Joined Jun 2004
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Quote:
Originally Posted by daddyrabbit1954 View Post
Shaun

While you are here discussing the testing of Thrust motors, was hoping you might see this post...is there any possibility Precision Aerobatics might rethink and reconsider the policy of publishing the user manuals for each aircraft online rather or in addition to including them as a hard copy in the kit box? I would be very pleased to have access to the manual online rather than have a hard copy with my airframe kit.




Oh OK I see.

To be honest the reason we avoid uploading our manuals is because of copycats. We have had some shameless Chinese factories that included our manuals with their models! One of them even sent us an email asking what a Spoileron is...

It is very annoying as we spend a lot of time and effort writing and preparing our manuals to include tips on best setup, trimming and so on for each of our planes. This is the reason our manuals are quite lengthy. After all our planes are as ready to fly as possible, with ailerons pre-installed and sometimes even elevator.

But anyway, I see more and more people are asking for it and I have to admit we did get a lot of emails asking digital manuals so it seems to bother more customers than I thought.

We will definitely reconsider it.

Thanks
Shaun
Precision Aerobatics Team
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