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Old Feb 08, 2003, 10:47 AM
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RobDog's Avatar
Tampa, Fl
Joined Jan 2002
700 Posts
A few brushless questions...

Hi,

Like most everyone, I have a few of the "duh" questions about brushless motors. Realy only about the hackers and what the numbers stand for and what the differences are between like the b20-15L and 12L.

I want to get the Extreme Team SU-31 and they list 8 HE Cells with the 12L and 9 with the 15L. Is the 12L that much larger / is it heavier in actual weight? I currently own a Mini Laser 3D and until the SU-31 is available in the U.S. would like to purchase a Hacker for it, but don't want to short change the SU. I've read lots of posts on using the 15L with the ML3D, but none on the 12L. I really don't want to goto 9 cells cause my ML3D can't use them and would like to keep the same Cell count for both planes. Makes sense right?

If you don't know what the SU-31 from Extreme Team is all about, PLEASE do yourself a favor and search for Extreme Team Video. You will find a couple of posts, but you want the one that says OOOOPS! We did it again. This plane is awsome and they are running it on the 12L and 8 HECells. Now don't get me wrong, I want to much more than just hover. I love flat spins, snaps, and knife edge. I won't spend much time in high alpha, so I should get excelent run time right?

I tried the Astro Flite 010 mounted in the stock gearbox on the ML3D with 8 HE Cells and though I had great flight duration, it was pretty sad when it comes to power. I suspect that the Hacker B20's are a lot more powerful?

Thanks for any advice,
Rob
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Old Feb 08, 2003, 10:49 AM
Purple power
gregg f's Avatar
shadow hills,ca
Joined Apr 2000
6,593 Posts
the motors are the same weight. just diff winds/kv.
the 12l has a kv of 4630
the 15l is 3700.that's the reason you need another cell.........g
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Last edited by gregg f; Feb 08, 2003 at 10:55 AM.
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Old Feb 08, 2003, 01:05 PM
Been There! Done That!
boomerace's Avatar
Eugene, Oregon, United States
Joined Sep 2001
19,187 Posts
Rob,
Have you checked out the Astro 020? Diff winds available also!
boomer
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Old Feb 08, 2003, 02:13 PM
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RobDog's Avatar
Tampa, Fl
Joined Jan 2002
700 Posts
OK.......but

I really appreciate the help, but I have no idea what you mean. I know that windings has something to do with how much wire is wraped inside on the "spinning" thingy. What is KV? I really don't know much about this stuff or how those differences effect flight, pull, amp draw, etc..... . Sorry to be such a newb and I hope that this hasn't all been gone through before.

Thanks again,
Rob
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Old Feb 08, 2003, 02:45 PM
Purple power
gregg f's Avatar
shadow hills,ca
Joined Apr 2000
6,593 Posts
kv=rpm per volt
for a more complete explanation check out the e zone faq .........g
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Old Feb 08, 2003, 02:52 PM
Been There! Done That!
boomerace's Avatar
Eugene, Oregon, United States
Joined Sep 2001
19,187 Posts
Re: OK.......but

Quote:
Originally posted by RobDog
I really appreciate the help, but I have no idea what you mean. I know that windings has something to do with how much wire is wraped inside on the "spinning" thingy. What is KV? I really don't know much about this stuff or how those differences effect flight, pull, amp draw, etc..... . Sorry to be such a newb and I hope that this hasn't all been gone through before.

Thanks again,
Rob
Rob,
without knowing prop, gearbox ratio, etc you were running with the 010 you would get a max of around 60 watts with the 8 cells. With the 020 the max on 8 cells geared would be about 128 watts. But would have to crunch some numbers in Motocalc and know a lot more about your set-up before I could make a recommendation. I would recommend you download Motocalc and play with it as you get 30 days free trial period and you are gonna have to get into the number game sometime anyway when powering your planes!
boomer
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Old Feb 18, 2003, 04:50 PM
310mph Kolibri T25 Swist
henke's Avatar
Sverige, Kronobergs Län, Ljungby
Joined Jan 2001
4,776 Posts
Howdy!

KV = rpm/volt

kv 3700 = 3700revs /volt with no prop mounted....

the diffrence between 12L and 15L is then the 15L needs one more cell to output the same revs as the 12L

12L 4:1 on 8cells gives same power as a 15L 4:1 on 9cells

for the ML and S31 I think B20 12L 4:1 is the best.

in the ML a 10x7 and 8x1100HE or 8xKAN 950

for 31 use KAN950 and 11x4.7 on 7cells or 10x4.7 on 8cells

if you like pattern style flying you should´t get the su31... it´s just for "cool" flying... hovers good, but does´t do flatspin, knifedge is hard... want´s to twist out... need almost 100% aileron input to keep it in knifedge

Ripmax Alliance is a better plane... does knifedge and Pattern well. uses B20 12L on 8x KAN950 and 10x7 prop AUW approx 25oz


/Henke
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Old Feb 18, 2003, 04:52 PM
310mph Kolibri T25 Swist
henke's Avatar
Sverige, Kronobergs Län, Ljungby
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12L and 15L is same weight... 12L uses less winds with thicker wire.... 15L more winds but thinner wire...

/Henke
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Old Feb 19, 2003, 02:58 AM
Tight is Right
Darren Hintze's Avatar
Lehi, Utah, United States
Joined Dec 2001
7,666 Posts
One motor you don't want to leave out of the equation for 8 cell applications like the ML3D is the MiniAC 1215/16.

I flew my ML3D with just 8 AAA 720's and it was great. That power system is now being migrated to a Wattage Tangent. It also flew my Sporty for a while.

The MiniAC 1215/16 is not as "Hot" as some of the Hacker motors, but it's also about 1/2 the price. It's very easy to mount in GWS or other standard S300 gearboxes (Lots of threads on this simple proceedure).

Have fun!
Melf

PS. Your 010 on 3 lithium Ion Polymers will put more than one smile on your face too! Don't give up on it!
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Old Feb 19, 2003, 04:45 PM
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RobDog's Avatar
Tampa, Fl
Joined Jan 2002
700 Posts
WOW, info overload....thanks

Well, as for the 010, it's been gone for sometime now. Probably a mistake.

So, I don't want the Su31 for flatspins or knife edge? Ripmax Alliance is a nice looking plane. But will it hover? Henket, one of the su31 videos shows the plane powering around on a wing, looks like a flatspin, kinda.

Anyway, I'm not REAL hung up on Hacker, but the good press they get is a selling point to me. Maybe I should just go ahead and buy it and see what I can do with it... Maybe hte mini laser will fill all my needs in one plane?

Thanks for the advice and ideas, keep them coming and I'll let you know when I'm in crunch time for a decision.

Rob
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Old Feb 19, 2003, 05:02 PM
310mph Kolibri T25 Swist
henke's Avatar
Sverige, Kronobergs Län, Ljungby
Joined Jan 2001
4,776 Posts
Hi

The Hacker is the only motor capable of that power and high eff and still so light.

the modelmotrors extreme needed 7 more amps to do the same work...

get the Hacker and your going to be very saticfied!

/Henke
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