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Old Jan 15, 2012, 12:45 AM
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Daemon's Avatar
Lakewood, Colorado
Joined Aug 2002
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Octo View Post
I have to say, who cares if the the FAA bans FPV as a hobby. They do not have any means of enforcement at all. I have spoken to guys who work for the FAA and they laugh about my concerns. They all say that the FAA does not have enough people doing what they are mandated to do right now.
While technically true that the FAA itself can't go out and actively enforce whatever
ridiculous rules they come out with, unfortunately there are more than enough other R/C
pilots who really believe FPV is evil (I hear some really nasty BS at the LHS) who would
be all too happy to become citizen vigilantes for the FAA, much as HAMs are often
the enforcement arm of the FCC. I have had other R/C pilots tell me straight to
my face that it is illegal to fly over certain areas of town "with an R/C plane with a camera on it"
and threaten to inform the local sheriff. There is no such law, and if there was, it certainly wouldn't
single out R/C aircraft.

I think our best bet is just to keep growing fast and educating spectators and other R/C
pilots one ride under the goggles after another. Emphasis that it is "harmless fun" and
if someone asks about rules and regs, say there are more than enough "unnecessary government regulations"
(a current hot button phrase), and we don't need more of them to cover toy aircraft.

ian
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Old Jan 15, 2012, 01:53 AM
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m_beeson's Avatar
United States, UT
Joined Jan 2011
3,314 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daemon View Post
While technically true that the FAA itself can't go out and actively enforce whatever
ridiculous rules they come out with, unfortunately there are more than enough other R/C
pilots who really believe FPV is evil (I hear some really nasty BS at the LHS) who would
be all too happy to become citizen vigilantes for the FAA, much as HAMs are often
the enforcement arm of the FCC. I have had other R/C pilots tell me straight to
my face that it is illegal to fly over certain areas of town "with an R/C plane with a camera on it"
and threaten to inform the local sheriff. There is no such law, and if there was, it certainly wouldn't
single out R/C aircraft.

I think our best bet is just to keep growing fast and educating spectators and other R/C
pilots one ride under the goggles after another. Emphasis that it is "harmless fun" and
if someone asks about rules and regs, say there are more than enough "unnecessary government regulations"
(a current hot button phrase), and we don't need more of them to cover toy aircraft.

ian

Well put.


I still can't get over the fact that "yes, they can control comercialization of the hobby (unjustly I'm sure)",


But by their own laws, it is illegal for them to restrict our recreational use of the uncontrolled airspace beyond that of any other recreational aircraft; such as ultralites, hang gliders, and paragliders, etc. That is where I stand on the subject...
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Old Jan 15, 2012, 07:15 AM
Just trying to get a nut.
scrtsqrl's Avatar
United States, VA, McLean
Joined Oct 2006
6,118 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by m_beeson View Post

Class G airspase is reserved for recreational pilotes, hobbies, etc.
Class G airspace isn't reserved for anyone.

It is simply "uncontrolled" airspace.


Quote:
Originally Posted by m_beeson View Post

But by their own laws, it is illegal for them to restrict our recreational use of the uncontrolled airspace beyond that of any other recreational aircraft; such as ultralites, hang gliders, and paragliders, etc. That is where I stand on the subject...
Those "other" recreational aircraft are manned. There is no one in your FPV plane.

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Old Jan 15, 2012, 09:24 AM
My three sons...
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Steamboat Springs Co.
Joined Nov 2004
1,078 Posts
Absolutely true Ian.. The AMA has already put themselves in a very tiny box if you fly by all of the regulations they currently have..
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Old Jan 16, 2012, 01:52 AM
Nakelp
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United States, NJ, Union
Joined Sep 2004
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Quote:
Originally Posted by prelator View Post
You know, I'm not convinced you even need a spotter to see and avoid other aircraft. Today while flying over the Virginia Beach landfill I spotted a full-scale plane through my video link. It was flying well above me (at least 2000 feet) and I posed no danger to it, but I descended a bit just to be safe. See and avoid is perfectly possible just using your video link.
During nice and warm summer I was flying on the pretty much empty beach, just trying to learn some low flying, breaking waves killed pretty much any noise out of 100 feet and if not pure luck any my friend it would have been very interesting day.
There was a full scale plane cruising less than 50 feet over the beach!!!!!!!
WHO WAS THAT MORON?!!!
There were few people on the beach but there were also kids flying kites.
You could possibly cause collision kicking the beach ball a little harder.
Did not see any FAA dude around.
Low flying planes are not so rare at the shores during the summer, but do they fly this low legally??
What is the point not to fly over 400' ?


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Old Jan 16, 2012, 02:05 AM
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Daemon's Avatar
Lakewood, Colorado
Joined Aug 2002
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nakelp86 View Post
Low flying planes are not so rare at the shores during the summer, but do they fly this low legally??
If they were really directly over the beach, then no.
If they were 500ft out, but only 50 feet up, then it was perfectly legal.
It's not uncommon to see low flying aircraft over the water near beaches.

Here are the FAA regs for full scale aircraft minimum altitudes. I highlighted the one that applies.
·91.119 Minimum safe altitudes; general
Except when necessary for takeoff or landing, no person may operate an aircraft below the
following altitudes;
(a) ·Anywhere. ·An altitude allowing, if a power unit fails, an emergency landing without undue
hazard to persons or property on the surface.
(b) ·Over congested areas. ·Over any congested area of a city, town, or settlement, or over any
open air assembly of persons, an altitude of 1,000 feet above the highest obstacle within a
horizontal radius of 2.000 feet of the aircraft.
(c) ·Over other than congested areas.
An altitude of 500 feet above the surface except over open water or sparsely populated areas. In
that case, the aircraft may not be operated closer than 500 feet to any person, vessel, vehicle, or
structure.

(d) ·Helicopters. ·Helicopters may be operated at less than the minimums prescribed In paragraph
(b) or (c) of this section if the operation is conducted without hazard to persons or property on the
surface. In addition, each person operating a helicopter shall comply with routes or altitudes
specifically prescribed for helicopters by the Administrator.
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Old Jan 16, 2012, 04:50 AM
OSUFPV - KF7VFT
Corvallis, OR
Joined Apr 2010
1,627 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daemon View Post
·91.119 Minimum safe altitudes; general
(c) ·Over other than congested areas.
An altitude of 500 feet above the surface except over open water or sparsely populated areas. In
that case, the aircraft may not be operated closer than 500 feet to any person, vessel, vehicle, or
structure.
Thanks Daemon, I've actually wondered about this myself at one point when
I spotted an aircraft at less than 200 feet zooming by overhead. Do you
know what determines a "sparsely" populated area? Is there some sort of a
class of airspace to designate this?

Blues
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Old Jan 16, 2012, 08:56 AM
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Yumastan RCAPA.NET
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I believe its besides whats yellow on a sectional.
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Old Jan 16, 2012, 09:00 AM
Nakelp
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United States, NJ, Union
Joined Sep 2004
6,701 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daemon View Post
If they were really directly over the beach, then no.
If they were 500ft out, but only 50 feet up, then it was perfectly legal.
It's not uncommon to see low flying aircraft over the water near beaches.
Thx Daemon,
I have to look for the video but the guy was flying at the shore break and mind you the beach is about 150' wide on the entire park stretch, so he was breaking the rules.
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Old Jan 16, 2012, 09:10 AM
DX5e fatal flaw- PM me!!!!
United States, NY, Cortland
Joined Sep 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by prelator View Post
...
See and avoid is perfectly possible just using your video link.
There is no way you can monitor for an overtake situation anywhere from outside the field-of-view.


Dave
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Old Jan 16, 2012, 09:38 AM
FPV Desert Beta Test Center
Mesa, Arizona
Joined Nov 2006
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Any pilot of full size aircraft knows just how hard it can be to pick out other aircraft especially if they are below the horizon and/or coming right at you. Trying to do it through a security camera view doesn't make it impossible but close.
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Old Jan 16, 2012, 10:38 AM
Just trying to get a nut.
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United States, VA, McLean
Joined Oct 2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CNY_Dave View Post
There is no way you can monitor for an overtake situation anywhere from outside the field-of-view.


Dave
This is true of a full sized aircraft as well. This is why the aircraft being overtaken has the right of way.

However...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary Evans View Post
Any pilot of full size aircraft knows just how hard it can be to pick out other aircraft especially if they are below the horizon and/or coming right at you. Trying to do it through a security camera view doesn't make it impossible but close.
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Old Jan 16, 2012, 11:25 AM
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Lakewood, Colorado
Joined Aug 2002
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blueshy View Post
Thanks Daemon, I've actually wondered about this myself at one point when
I spotted an aircraft at less than 200 feet zooming by overhead. Do you
know what determines a "sparsely" populated area? Is there some sort of a
class of airspace to designate this?

Blues
In general, Class G, but there is some assumption of common sense on the part
of the pilot. There's actually quite a bit of common sense built into the FAA regs as a
whole , but it's hard to see that when they're proposing nonsensical things.

ian
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Old Jan 16, 2012, 11:41 AM
DX5e fatal flaw- PM me!!!!
United States, NY, Cortland
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scrtsqrl View Post
This is true of a full sized aircraft as well. This is why the aircraft being overtaken has the right of way.

However...
Yes, however ....

Model aviation pilots are not held to the rule of 'couldn't see him because he was behind me', and also can never have the right of way over a full-scale.

What we are held to is visual spotting of all full-scale traffic, and yielding the ROW to all full-scale traffic.

Dave
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Old Jan 16, 2012, 12:05 PM
Just trying to get a nut.
scrtsqrl's Avatar
United States, VA, McLean
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CNY_Dave View Post
Yes, however ....

Model aviation pilots are not held to the rule of 'couldn't see him because he was behind me', and also can never have the right of way over a full-scale.


Dave
Indeed. I was referring to manned aircraft vs manned aircraft.

Manned aircraft will always have the right of way over unmanned aircraft.

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