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Old Aug 19, 2011, 05:12 PM
OSUFPV - KF7VFT
Corvallis, OR
Joined Apr 2010
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Originally Posted by Gary Evans View Post
Very true. You can't see what is out of view. In the sailplane flight due to the extremely small cross section of other gliders you spend a lot of time looking from side to side which increases your field of view to maybe 250 degrees. Even that is little protection when closing speed may be 200 mph. The most recent sailplane development (POWERFLARM) is a portable on-board warning system that each plane would carry. This is primarly intended for contests where a lot of gliders are in a relatively small area.
See this is where I think drones can do one better than a human, because they
CAN see behind them if they just had the proper technology implemented. A
drone could manage all of the flying and objectives and still keep a lookout with
a 360 degree view for possible midair collisions.

"The Shadow was in a holding pattern 4,500 ft. off the end of the runway, where it had been directed by air traffic control, when the C-130 “flew right through,” Owings says. “The manned aircraft did not do what it was procedurally supposed to, nor were they where they thought they were,” Sova says." (From Aviation Week)

Furthermore, although the manned aircraft is supposed to see and avoid, it also
sounded like the ATC wasn't doing that great of a job either. It's also worthy to
note that these are military aircraft that are built to be shot at and take damage.
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Old Aug 19, 2011, 06:23 PM
SlowStick Test Pilot
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Yumastan RCAPA.NET
Joined Feb 2003
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Well, on the bright side... if it was a small single engine spotter vs. the C 130 we'd more than likely have a fatality. So we lucked out.
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Old Aug 25, 2011, 12:06 AM
Going to Plan C
Joined May 2011
98 Posts
ok I have to chime in here and probably going to regret this but owell.

My background: C-130 Flight Engineer Instructor with 2700 hours. Been Deployed to afghanistan 7 times during every time of the year.

Now this is from real experience and not monday morning quarter backing like everything you read and people that have not been there to talk about it.

The whole afghan theater is full of UAV's. When they can go up for 16-20 hours and stay above high threat areas, they are great. Now, they used to fly without any lights on and most of the time not squawking altitude on TCAS (Traffic Collision Avoidance System for the people that dont know what that is). TCAS functions as a arial radar between aircraft that gives the altitude between the two aircraft and warning when they get close. Most of the large UAV's have this. Now they are required to fly with lights on and TCAS squawking at any time if they have the systems. However many of the smaller UAV's used at FOB's( Forward Operating Bases) dont have them.

During the Summer months in Afghanistan, there is always a wind and a very thick dust layer till FL 160-180. While most of afghan elevation is anywhere from 3200-7500 feet field elevation that makes anything airborne a threat. The visibility is absolutely horrible and not a clear in a million day we have over here.

I have had a TCAS warning go off and 4 people are looking out the windows for this thing and never saw it pass by at 200 feet above and within 1 mile of the aircraft. The visibility is just not there and everything is hard to see and make out.

The radio coverage and ATC just absolutely suck. There is constant jamming and LOS issues all over that place. The radio coverage maps are at best 40 miles from a field and we would often only get them as we were 20 miles in. ATC are not winners either giving bad headings into mountains or terrain as they are not doing anything else but looking at radar. It is a Tactical environment that requires non pattern type flying to prevent the "Bad Guys" from just setting up shop on a normal approach path to start shooting at aircraft.

The final thing I will add is you take high temperatures and stressful LONG days with everything that is against you and the crew situational awareness will go down. You dont flying a 8-5 schedule there and have your sleep schedule flipped all the time. Trying going to work at 8 am then going to work at 11pm the next day for 12 hours when your body says it should be asleep.

I am actually really surprised that there hasn't been something sooner than this and more often but everything is against a flight crew over there and that airspace is very busy. It doesnt matter how or what angle, or where ATC put them or where they were as everything is a gray area with little control.

Once again, I have been there and lived the nightmare to many times. That environment can not in any way compare to the US mainland.
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Old Aug 25, 2011, 12:20 AM
OSUFPV - KF7VFT
Corvallis, OR
Joined Apr 2010
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Originally Posted by spectre6573 View Post
I am actually really surprised that there hasn't been something sooner than this and more often but everything is against a flight crew over there and that airspace is very busy. It doesnt matter how or what angle, or where ATC put them or where they were as everything is a gray area with little control.
They still have instruments though, right? I mean under IFR if ATC puts them somewhere they should at least know where they are and what angle they're at, otherwise how do they fly the plane safely in the first place? I'm not trying to blame anyone, just amazed that they had no idea where they were.
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Old Aug 25, 2011, 12:34 AM
Going to Plan C
Joined May 2011
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Oh i am not saying that they were spectacular aviators or anything. However, ATC never puts anybody anywhere in that theater. They typically give instructions to stay outside a distance and wait for further instructions. Please also look at it this way, if you were in a war zone where people wanted to shot you down as a prize, would you want to go to a specific area and hold doing orbits? That would be like "Hey look at me circling overhead. Please shoot at me!!!"

Like I said previously, there are many factors to consider and there may be things that are left out as the FAA really doesnt have any kind of authority over there.
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Old Aug 25, 2011, 12:59 AM
OSUFPV - KF7VFT
Corvallis, OR
Joined Apr 2010
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Originally Posted by spectre6573 View Post
Oh i am not saying that they were spectacular aviators or anything. However, ATC never puts anybody anywhere in that theater. They typically give instructions to stay outside a distance and wait for further instructions.
Well, from what I read, these guys were taking off and that's what I meant by
"puts you somewhere." My understanding is that the ATC told them they
needed to climb to avoid the circling UAV at the end and they obviously didn't.
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Old Aug 25, 2011, 01:21 AM
Going to Plan C
Joined May 2011
98 Posts
no worries

the aircraft performance in the summer is horrible especially if they were heavy and it was probably 95-105 degrees at the time of take off. The C-130 does not like to take off during these types of conditions. So they might not have had the climb performance as there is not climb requirement during VFR operations and 95% of the missions flown are VFR.

owell.. have a good night blueshy.
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Old Aug 30, 2011, 12:14 PM
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Bay Area
Joined Dec 2010
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Originally Posted by Gary Evans View Post
This AMA Government Relations tab is your best bet for following all of the detail. When anything important happens I'll post it here.

http://www.modelaircraft.org/
No updates I guess? What's the status of all this from the years perspective so far? When I really dug into FPV back in December everyone was saying by mid year we'd have all these rules and FPV was gonna end. Of course that's a bit dramatic, but was this slowed down by the government almost shutting down or they figured out we're stimulating the economy more than any other Americans?

Or did I just miss it and I was to turn in my planes a month ago.
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Old Aug 30, 2011, 01:28 PM
FPV Desert Beta Test Center
Mesa, Arizona
Joined Nov 2006
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Originally Posted by CaliDave View Post
No updates I guess? What's the status of all this from the years perspective so far? When I really dug into FPV back in December everyone was saying by mid year we'd have all these rules and FPV was gonna end. Of course that's a bit dramatic, but was this slowed down by the government almost shutting down or they figured out we're stimulating the economy more than any other Americans?

Or did I just miss it and I was to turn in my planes a month ago.
If you haven't turned in your plane the only hope now is to request a waiver.

Seriously nothing is expected to be released until the NPRM is published and there has been delay after delay (thats the good news). Latest FAA projection is 1/6/12 and comment period until 4/5/12.
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Old Aug 30, 2011, 06:46 PM
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If you haven't turned in your plane the only hope now is to request a waiver.

Seriously nothing is expected to be released until the NPRM is published and there has been delay after delay (thats the good news). Latest FAA projection is 1/6/12 and comment period until 4/5/12.
Ahh ok thanks! Well it just gives more time to save our receipts to show them how good this hobby is to the economy. Hehe.
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Old Aug 30, 2011, 09:18 PM
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This may be the wrong place to ask, but I have been researching fruitlessly for a while now for legal fpv frequency usage and Rf output. I live in a pretty densely populated area and do not want to interfere with anyone's signal. Also, has anyone here ever used the hobbyking 900 MHz fpv systems? are they any good, because I'm on a budget but I would love o get into FPV.
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Old Aug 31, 2011, 12:41 AM
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United States, NV, Las Vegas
Joined Apr 2011
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Originally Posted by Obeebee View Post
This may be the wrong place to ask, but I have been researching fruitlessly for a while now for legal fpv frequency usage and Rf output. I live in a pretty densely populated area and do not want to interfere with anyone's signal. Also, has anyone here ever used the hobbyking 900 MHz fpv systems? are they any good, because I'm on a budget but I would love o get into FPV.
http://edocket.access.gpo.gov/cfr_20...47cfr97.13.htm

1280mhz is band 23cm
900mhz is band 33cm
433mhz is band 70cm
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Old Sep 01, 2011, 03:36 PM
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Originally Posted by ScooterInVegas View Post
http://edocket.access.gpo.gov/cfr_20...47cfr97.13.htm

1280mhz is band 23cm
900mhz is band 33cm
433mhz is band 70cm
Thanks fro this! I've been looking so long i should have just asked here in the first place
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Old Sep 06, 2011, 05:30 PM
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Is there a mw output level that they do not regulate, like 200mw or less?
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Old Sep 06, 2011, 06:00 PM
OSUFPV - KF7VFT
Corvallis, OR
Joined Apr 2010
1,761 Posts
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Originally Posted by Tarro View Post
Is there a mw output level that they do not regulate, like 200mw or less?
I think its 10mW or less.
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