HobbyKing.com New Products Flash Sale
Reply
Thread Tools
This thread is privately moderated by Gary Evans, who may elect to delete unwanted replies.
Old Jun 06, 2011, 09:51 PM
Fly Chitty Chitty Bang Bang!
EarthOrbiter's Avatar
Central California USA
Joined Feb 2011
379 Posts
I only can imagine FPV NOTAMS coming in my mail in the possible future.
EarthOrbiter is offline Find More Posts by EarthOrbiter
Reply With Quote
Sign up now
to remove ads between posts
Old Jun 07, 2011, 11:59 PM
Balsadustus Producerus
Escondido, CA USA
Joined Jan 2001
1,032 Posts
Nah, they'll be air-dropped from a BLOS instead of mailed
Balsabird is online now Find More Posts by Balsabird
Reply With Quote
Old Jul 08, 2011, 11:49 PM
OSUFPV - KF7VFT
Corvallis, OR
Joined Apr 2010
1,778 Posts
Just kidding.
Blueshy is offline Find More Posts by Blueshy
Last edited by Blueshy; Jul 09, 2011 at 12:30 AM.
Reply With Quote
Old Jul 09, 2011, 12:18 AM
FPV Browncoat
prelator's Avatar
United States, CO, Parker
Joined Mar 2011
1,558 Posts
Hmm, that document is from 2 years ago, so it may not be current. I don't think I've seen the whole document before, but parts of it look familiar. Did we already have this document or has it just recently been released?
prelator is online now Find More Posts by prelator
Reply With Quote
Old Jul 09, 2011, 12:30 AM
OSUFPV - KF7VFT
Corvallis, OR
Joined Apr 2010
1,778 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by prelator View Post
Hmm, that document is from 2 years ago, so it may not be current. I don't think I've seen the whole document before, but parts of it look familiar. Did we already have this document or has it just recently been released?
Oh good god, how did I miss that? The date is printed on every page... *facepalm*

When I read it for some reason it looked current...
Blueshy is offline Find More Posts by Blueshy
Reply With Quote
Old Jul 15, 2011, 07:58 AM
Registered User
Joined Aug 2007
767 Posts
What are the best links for checking on the current status of these guidelines at the AMA level and the proposed FAA regs? The FAA website is pretty good as far as the existing situation (FAA requirements for flying a "real UAV" as a private person are basically "fugeddabowdit"; advisory guidelines for FPV "modelers" are "playpen required". Just kidding.) but I can't find much about the rulemaking process and proposed regs?? I haven't looked at the AMA site lately, I guess I should.

It's always bothered me a bit how the FAA is letting the AMA take such a lead role in sanctioning modeler FPV ops. It's like, the AMA is spose to represent us. It seems like a conflict.
misfire is offline Find More Posts by misfire
Reply With Quote
Old Jul 15, 2011, 08:28 AM
FPV Desert Beta Test Center
Mesa, Arizona
Joined Nov 2006
2,451 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by misfire View Post
What are the best links for checking on the current status of these guidelines at the AMA level and the proposed FAA regs? The FAA website is pretty good as far as the existing situation (FAA requirements for flying a "real UAV" as a private person are basically "fugeddabowdit"; advisory guidelines for FPV "modelers" are "playpen required". Just kidding.) but I can't find much about the rulemaking process and proposed regs?? I haven't looked at the AMA site lately, I guess I should.

It's always bothered me a bit how the FAA is letting the AMA take such a lead role in sanctioning modeler FPV ops. It's like, the AMA is spose to represent us. It seems like a conflict.
This AMA Government Relations tab is your best bet for following all of the detail. When anything important happens I'll post it here.

http://www.modelaircraft.org/

I assume FAA would rather have AMA deal with day to day issues.
Gary Evans is offline Find More Posts by Gary Evans
Reply With Quote
Old Aug 19, 2011, 09:54 AM
Just trying to get a nut.
scrtsqrl's Avatar
United States, VA, McLean
Joined Oct 2006
6,455 Posts
Interesting article.

"In reality, neither a manned or unmanned aircraft can sense and avoid a collision from behind in the absence of a cue from ground-based radar or other offboard warning systems."
scrtsqrl is online now Find More Posts by scrtsqrl
Reply With Quote
Old Aug 19, 2011, 10:23 AM
FPV Desert Beta Test Center
Mesa, Arizona
Joined Nov 2006
2,451 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by scrtsqrl View Post
Interesting article.

"In reality, neither a manned or unmanned aircraft can sense and avoid a collision from behind in the absence of a cue from ground-based radar or other offboard warning systems."
Very true. You can't see what is out of view. In the sailplane flight due to the extremely small cross section of other gliders you spend a lot of time looking from side to side which increases your field of view to maybe 250 degrees. Even that is little protection when closing speed may be 200 mph. The most recent sailplane development (POWERFLARM) is a portable on-board warning system that each plane would carry. This is primarly intended for contests where a lot of gliders are in a relatively small area.
Gary Evans is offline Find More Posts by Gary Evans
Reply With Quote
Old Aug 19, 2011, 10:25 AM
DX5e fatal flaw- PM me!!!!
United States, NY, Cortland
Joined Sep 2010
2,839 Posts
Overtake is going to be a huge deal with UAs, they are often flying in airspace with much faster traffic. My work has involved a bunch of sims predicting just this...

Now imagine that with a pred b and occurring at FL180.

U-G-L-I- UGLI!

The sense-and-avoid systems must do quite a bit better than looking forwards.

Also notable the C130 crew never saw it- too small, too slow, and a low-observable paint scheme. See-and-avoid will reliably fail for the manned craft going up against a small UA.


Dave
CNY_Dave is offline Find More Posts by CNY_Dave
Reply With Quote
Old Aug 19, 2011, 10:50 AM
SlowStick Test Pilot
patrickegan's Avatar
Yumastan RCAPA.NET
Joined Feb 2003
5,952 Posts
Not buying...

"The Shadow was in a holding pattern 4,500 ft. off the end of the runway, where it had been directed by air traffic control, when the C-130 “flew right through,” Owings says. “The manned aircraft did not do what it was procedurally supposed to, nor were they where they thought they were,” Sova says." (From Aviation Week)


If you can see a T33 out at 10 miles closing at 500 knots these guys should have seen the RQ 7

http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgAdvisoryCircular.nsf/0/7373cdbc7158f4c286256a03006e1551/$FILE/AC90-48c.pdf
patrickegan is offline Find More Posts by patrickegan
Reply With Quote
Old Aug 19, 2011, 11:12 AM
DX5e fatal flaw- PM me!!!!
United States, NY, Cortland
Joined Sep 2010
2,839 Posts
The largest dimension of the shadow is much much smaller than the smallest feature on a T33.

If you do the math on 20/20 visual acuity and the required subtended angle, the height and width of the fuse as seen from the rear, and the thickness of the wings, I think you will be somewhat surprised how close it needs to be.

For example, the length of the wing is quite meaningless until the thickness of the wing subtends an angle sufficient to be seen- until then, the wing is invisible.

It is quite possible the shadow was seen against terrain, as opposed to a sky silhouette.


Dave
CNY_Dave is offline Find More Posts by CNY_Dave
Reply With Quote
Old Aug 19, 2011, 11:16 AM
FPV Desert Beta Test Center
Mesa, Arizona
Joined Nov 2006
2,451 Posts
Your eye can detect movement much better than a stationary object. Depending on direction and attitude another aircraft can appear stationary and if below the horizon it is even harder to detect unless you know right where to look. Detection can be much harder than you would think.
Gary Evans is offline Find More Posts by Gary Evans
Reply With Quote
Old Aug 19, 2011, 03:04 PM
SlowStick Test Pilot
patrickegan's Avatar
Yumastan RCAPA.NET
Joined Feb 2003
5,952 Posts
Early reports are saying they came up on the shadow...
patrickegan is offline Find More Posts by patrickegan
Reply With Quote
Old Aug 19, 2011, 04:10 PM
FPV Desert Beta Test Center
Mesa, Arizona
Joined Nov 2006
2,451 Posts
How you doing Patrick? Still in Yumastan?
Gary Evans is offline Find More Posts by Gary Evans
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Category Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Poll Proposed U.S. FPV Guidelines - Max Range Gary Evans FPV Talk 65 Aug 10, 2008 03:27 AM
Poll Proposed U.S. FPV Guidelines - Max Weight Gary Evans FPV Talk 16 Jul 30, 2008 02:30 PM
Poll Proposed U.S. FPV Guidelines - Max Altitude Gary Evans FPV Talk 52 Jul 30, 2008 02:05 PM