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Old Feb 14, 2013, 09:28 AM
DX5e fatal flaw- PM me!!!!
United States, NY, Cortland
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Originally Posted by prelator View Post
Huh. You would think they would have studied that BEFORE declaring that cameras a per se inadequate to sense and avoid now wouldn't you?
Cameras are easy to declare inadequate because there is no way to quantitatively compare the ability of a human and a human using a camera to carry out a safety-critical task.

Initially the UAS proponents thought that all they had to do was quantify the human eye, and create a camera system that would be equivalent or better.

Problem is, most of 'seeing' goes far beyond quantifying simple visual acuity.
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Old Feb 14, 2013, 10:21 AM
FPV Desert Beta Test Center
Mesa, Arizona
Joined Nov 2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CNY_Dave View Post
Cameras are easy to declare inadequate because there is no way to quantitatively compare the ability of a human and a human using a camera to carry out a safety-critical task.

Initially the UAS proponents thought that all they had to do was quantify the human eye, and create a camera system that would be equivalent or better.

Problem is, most of 'seeing' goes far beyond quantifying simple visual acuity.
This is the reason why security cameras moveable or not are no equal to human situational awareness. Unless your a licensed pilot it may not be apparent just how critical constant visual scanning is to safe flight and just how difficult it can be to spot other traffic. I have a lot of sailplane time and at meets there can be 25+ gliders launching one after another but once in the air they almost all can disappear from sight unless they are really close and you keep constant track of them. This problem is best demostrated when all of a sudden one appears almost upon you before you see it.
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Old Feb 14, 2013, 11:30 AM
Foam Wrecker
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RC Reviews suggest we organize and be proactive in self-regulation before legislators implement unnecessary restrictions:

Drones threaten RC model flying (10 min 25 sec)
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Old Feb 14, 2013, 11:59 AM
FPV Desert Beta Test Center
Mesa, Arizona
Joined Nov 2006
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Originally Posted by BillBlair View Post
RC Reviews suggest we organize and be proactive in self-regulation before legislators implement unnecessary restrictions:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iz19DQ6-eGE&hd=1

We were proactive 4 years ago with FPV and it helped with AMA but not so much FAA. IMO the only piece in which there may yet be a chance here for user input is regarding privacy and the only credible U.S. based organization representing amateur modelers has already put forth a policy on the subject.
The chance of having any positive impact on Federal regulations will be in comments once the NPRM is published.
Nothing wrong with another organization as long as the objectives are worthwhile, attainable and do not detract from efforts already underway.
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Old Feb 14, 2013, 02:04 PM
KD5ANE
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United States, LA, Deville
Joined Feb 2013
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First Person View Association (FPVA), maybe??

Other self-regulating hobby groups have been successful:

USUA (US Ultralight Association) -- Ultralight Aircraft
PADI (Professional Association of Dive Instructors) -- Scuba Diving
ARRL (American Radio Relay League) -- Amateur (ham) Radio,
etc., etc.,

Through responsible self-regulating, these organizations have avoided heavy imposed government regulations very sucessfully.
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Old Feb 14, 2013, 02:14 PM
Registered User
San Marcos, CA
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We have the VPA already .. and gearing up again over at FPVLabs.
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Old Feb 14, 2013, 02:31 PM
Gaftopher
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RCAPA it was at the first FAA meeting, the trouble is the AMA have ring fenced modelling with HR 658. None of this is new, its just people have stuck there heads in the sand.

This from 2010


http://www.suasnews.com/2010/11/2782/the-sfar-part-107-shades-of-things-to-come%E2%80%A6/
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Old Feb 14, 2013, 03:16 PM
FPV Desert Beta Test Center
Mesa, Arizona
Joined Nov 2006
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Originally Posted by Gary Mortimer View Post
RCAPA it was at the first FAA meeting, the trouble is the AMA have ring fenced modelling with HR 658. None of this is new, its just people have stuck there heads in the sand.

This from 2010


http://www.suasnews.com/2010/11/2782/the-sfar-part-107-shades-of-things-to-come%E2%80%A6/
Depends on your perspective. If HR 658 sticks (still IMO to be determined) it will be a major achievement for amatuer models as it exempts us from FAA regulations. Couldn't get much better than that except to be exempt from everything which was not going to happen. It obviously does nothing for the commerical operators but we are not commercial operators.
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Old Feb 14, 2013, 05:23 PM
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Cept under that exemption we still don't really know what "the auspices of a community-based safety program"
will mean for us in the long run. There's no guarantee that it'll be the AMA, and
no guarantee that even if it is the AMA that it'll be good for us.

ian
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Old Feb 14, 2013, 05:51 PM
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San Marcos, CA
Joined Aug 2009
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Big issue is also that some of the FPV'ers want to continue doing commercial projects under those exceptions which are clearly not allowed... so that's going to be a major discussion point.
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Old Feb 14, 2013, 05:55 PM
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Most folks I know operating commercially are just "doing it", making no
claim to be operating under the modelling exemption. I think they
generally use the "it's a stupid law" exemption.
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Old Feb 14, 2013, 06:23 PM
OSUFPV - KF7VFT
Corvallis, OR
Joined Apr 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daemon View Post
Cept under that exemption we still don't really know what "the auspices of a community-based safety program"
will mean for us in the long run.
We don't even know what the "community-based safety program" entails or
means. There are no rules or clarification of process on becoming one.

-Blues
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Old Feb 14, 2013, 07:30 PM
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I believe that was my point.
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Old Feb 14, 2013, 09:07 PM
Rocket Programmer
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United States, AZ, Mesa
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blueshy View Post
We don't even know what the "community-based safety program" entails or
means. There are no rules or clarification of process on becoming one.

-Blues
The AMA has a strong opinion on what it means. They are trying to make themselves into the only organization that fits the definition. I don't consider it good, but spreading ourselves thin might not be any better?
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Old Feb 14, 2013, 09:13 PM
OSUFPV - KF7VFT
Corvallis, OR
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jasmine2501 View Post
The AMA has a strong opinion on what it means. They are trying to make themselves into the only organization that fits the definition. I don't consider it good, but spreading ourselves thin might not be any better?
Well, they don't have to spread at all really since they are the ones who wrote
the provision. AMA can have all the opinions they like about what they think it
means. I don't care what the AMA thinks it means, I care about whoever
decides whether or not you are a CBO thinks it means.

-Blues
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