Espritmodel.com Telemetry Radio
Reply
Thread Tools
Old Aug 12, 2008, 07:26 PM
CSI
I promise, just ONE more order
CSI's Avatar
Del Rio Intl, Texas, United States
Joined Feb 2004
3,983 Posts
Discussion
BAE Hawk motor question w/Midi fan....edit: anyone using 90mm Midi fan???

Hi guys,
I am slowly building up my Haoye BAE Hawk, shadowing the FlyFly Hawk version. It's got 601 mechanical retracts, lot's of mods, strengthening, etc...to improve it's quality for increased power.
Now it's time to consider the power. I plan on using a 90mm Midi fan, along with 5s or 6s lipo power.
What I need now is to find the right motor for the job and also the esc to use.
My goal is to have a good flying jet with decent duration. I don't need it to be a speed freak, more interested in solid flying so it's not begging for power if I want to do a loop!
I have my other EDF jets for going fast, this one is for sport.

Could you please offer some motor and esc suggestions that might help me get this bird flying?
Are the Typhoon motors good for this?
One last question..........what do you guys use for the exhaust tube? Where do you get it? I haven't found any clear plastic sheets that are big enough.
Thanks for any help guys....this is my first "large" EDF.
Ken
CSI is offline Find More Posts by CSI
RCG Plus Member
Last edited by CSI; Aug 13, 2008 at 01:07 PM.
Reply With Quote
Sign up now
to remove ads between posts
Old Aug 15, 2008, 01:45 AM
CSI
I promise, just ONE more order
CSI's Avatar
Del Rio Intl, Texas, United States
Joined Feb 2004
3,983 Posts
Isn't there ANYBODY left out there that is using a 90mm Midi fan????
Electric Jet Factory is offering the Typhoon motors to work with these fans.
I have read past discussions about the 2 possible motors for this application.

1) 600-32 800W 4-5s lipo 1600kv (1110watts) 70amp max load

2) 600-33 1100W 5-6s lipo 1350kv (1350watts) 70amp max load

I need to know more about how these motors perform compared to one another.
I am not going for all out speed, just want a long run time and enough power that I don't have to stay near max throttle the whole flight.
This BAE Hawk won't be the lightest thing out there, but I am keeping the weight gains modest.

Can anyone help with some insight or suggestions? Somebody must have used one of these motors????
Thanks guys.
Ken
.....I am really needing to get the fan and motor ordered so I can start putting the fuselage sides together. Not too much more prep left to do before sealing her up..........
CSI is offline Find More Posts by CSI
RCG Plus Member
Reply With Quote
Old Aug 15, 2008, 08:49 AM
EDF all the way!
bruff's Avatar
Gilbert, Az
Joined Jun 1999
7,922 Posts
I'm using the Midi fan with a Hacker B50-15L on 6S. Flies my 6 lb jets along great!
Bob
bruff is online now Find More Posts by bruff
Reply With Quote
Old Aug 15, 2008, 10:19 AM
Si Vis Pacem Para Bellum!
Doubletap's Avatar
PRC (People's Republic of Commiefornia)
Joined Jul 2005
9,602 Posts
Sounds like most people are using a 1600kv motor with the Midi fan for approx 50A and 1000W on 6S. The Haoye/FlyFly 90mm fans, having one extra blade are good with 1350kv motors for 55A and 1200W. Does that help you?

Doubletap
Doubletap is offline Find More Posts by Doubletap
Reply With Quote
Old Aug 15, 2008, 12:00 PM
CSI
I promise, just ONE more order
CSI's Avatar
Del Rio Intl, Texas, United States
Joined Feb 2004
3,983 Posts
Hey, Thanks for the replies! Yes, the info does help. I am totally unsure about what equipment I want to go with, except for using the Midi fan.

It appears I am going to be forced to buy even more new lipos for this setup. I have so many now it is getting hard to store them! I have 6 2200mAh 3s 20c packs I had hoped to use, but from what I can tell, I need to go up to around 3000mAh size. Is this a fair assumption?

I guess nobody really uses those Typhoon motors?

I am really lost now. Use 5s or 6s? What motor, etc.? I am not familiar with using a larger EDF, so just don't know what I need to meet my goals.
All I do know is not to use the fan/motor that came with the Haoye kit.
I can't afford to break the bank with this plane, so I want to keep the cost down where I can.
Thanks again for the info.
Ken
CSI is offline Find More Posts by CSI
RCG Plus Member
Reply With Quote
Old Aug 15, 2008, 12:31 PM
Registered User
Ed Waldrep's Avatar
Las Vegas, NV
Joined Dec 1996
7,926 Posts
I've ran the midi on 5S 5000 for years with the Mega 22/30/2, it pulled about 1050 watts/61 amps on that setup. Back in the spring I added an MPI heat sink to the motor and started running it on 6S, the draw went up to 74 amps and 1600 watts, a nice performance boost for my aging 90mm EJF F-18. I could loop the plane before with 5S no problem, but the 6S gives me a bit more speed (not a whole lot since I have not gear doors, kinda draggy) and better vertical.

For batteries I've used the TP Extreme 5000s and they are nice but expensive. I tried the Zippy H 5000s from Hobby City and at 74 amps they are fine, they get up to maybe 135 degrees after a flight, maybe more depending on how hard I run them, but for the money (something like 60 bucks for each 3S pack, I run two packs in series) they are great, and that's at 15C rating. Flights are short enough, I wouldn't want to run smaller packs and I don't see how weight savings would improve performance. I like haveing the power there, and the jet only weighs a bit over 6lbs.
Ed Waldrep is offline Find More Posts by Ed Waldrep
Reply With Quote
Old Aug 15, 2008, 12:38 PM
Si Vis Pacem Para Bellum!
Doubletap's Avatar
PRC (People's Republic of Commiefornia)
Joined Jul 2005
9,602 Posts
Do you already have the Midi fan? If you have not already bought the Midi and you are cost conscious, I would recommend the Haoye 3.5" fan from Hobby City for $20. It's essentially the same as the FlyFly 90mm but seems much better built.

http://www.hobbycity.com/hobbycity/s..._Blade_3.5inch

For ESC, either the SuperSimple 100A from HobbyCity (out of stock right now) or the Suppo 100A from LightFlightRC.com.

http://www.hobbycity.com/hobbycity/s...imple_100A_ESC
http://lightflightrc.com/HTML/products/SP_100A_ESC.htm

For motors, you'll need 1350kv for the Haoye fan on 6S, or 1600kv with the Midi fan. Check Hobby City for their 36mm diameter inrunners although they don't seem to have quite the right kv's and the ones that are close are a bit light in weight. Another reasonably priced 36mm inrunner is FSD sold through bidproduct.com:

http://www.bidproduct.com/part/Produ...0MOTOR_45.html

These are very stout and well made motors and can be ordered in a variety of kv's. Just choose the one that you need.

You can run 6s 4400 with your 3S 2200 batts by hooking them up in a "2x2" arrangement; that is 2 in series x 2 parallel. You'll need to buy or make a couple of series adapters and 1 parallel adapter to do this.

http://www.hobbycity.com/hobbycity/s...ries_Pack_lead
http://www.hobbycity.com/hobbycity/s...llel_Pack_lead

Keep in mind that the Haoye 3.5" fan is unbalanced unlike the Midi which is already dynamically balanced. If you go with the Haoye, you should have a proper balancer to do the job such as the Top Flite magnetic prop balancer.

Doubletap
Doubletap is offline Find More Posts by Doubletap
Reply With Quote
Old Aug 15, 2008, 03:48 PM
diligentia vis celeritas
gunracer's Avatar
Corona, CA
Joined Feb 2006
3,547 Posts
i looked initially at using the haoye 90mm fan in this model...fitting it, along with the weight, ducting issues and inability to use a thrust tube, made me give up...i'm going with the haoye 75mm fan on 5 cells...
gunracer is offline Find More Posts by gunracer
Reply With Quote
Old Aug 15, 2008, 03:52 PM
Si Vis Pacem Para Bellum!
Doubletap's Avatar
PRC (People's Republic of Commiefornia)
Joined Jul 2005
9,602 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by gunracer
i looked initially at using the haoye 90mm fan in this model...fitting it, along with the weight, ducting issues and inability to use a thrust tube, made me give up...i'm going with the haoye 75mm fan on 5 cells...
That's kind of what I suspected because the Haoye Hawk is actually much smaller than the FlyFly Hawk.

Doubletap
Doubletap is offline Find More Posts by Doubletap
Reply With Quote
Old Aug 16, 2008, 12:51 AM
CSI
I promise, just ONE more order
CSI's Avatar
Del Rio Intl, Texas, United States
Joined Feb 2004
3,983 Posts
Wow...great info guys. This really helps guide me using some "real world" info rather than some product advertisement data.

Yeah, I'm looking into several things now...
5s or 6s.
75 or 90mm fan.

I didn't realize this Haoye Hawk was that much different in size compared to the FF version. I have been using photos of the FF plane to help me build/locate things in my Haoye version. I am definitely having to do a lot of mods, but I enjoy figuring out how to make things work, so not really a problem..........yet!

I had planned on the Midi fan due to all the great reviews about it. Now that I find this Hawk is smaller, and probably lighter...I'm wondering if all it needs is the 75mm fan? The cheap stock 4 blade fan is 90mm though, that's why I thought I needed a 90 size?
I am also viewing the install of the fan with a critical eye...just like gunracer. The 90 fan definitely doesn't leave any wiggle room for installation. Aligning the exhaust angles up seems a bit too tight with a 90. BUT, I also wonder if a 75mm fan will be enough....especially having full retracts, servos, etc.

This project if definitely becoming too complex...making my brain hurt.
The info you all have provided will really help. Any other comments or suggestions are greatly welcomed.
Thank you,
Ken
CSI is offline Find More Posts by CSI
RCG Plus Member
Reply With Quote
Old Aug 16, 2008, 02:55 AM
diligentia vis celeritas
gunracer's Avatar
Corona, CA
Joined Feb 2006
3,547 Posts
even with retracts, i think the 75 on 5 cells will be sufficient...you can go to 6 cells but the weight goes up...i'm using the 75 with an het 2w25 on 5 cells in a gws a-4 which is similar in size and it moves her along pretty good...for thrust tubes, i use mylar plastic sheets...you can find them at craft stores likes michaels or jo anns...
hope this helps...
gunracer is offline Find More Posts by gunracer
Reply With Quote
Old Aug 16, 2008, 01:15 PM
CSI
I promise, just ONE more order
CSI's Avatar
Del Rio Intl, Texas, United States
Joined Feb 2004
3,983 Posts
Thanks Gunracer. Your info gives me some ideas to work with.
My Hawk build is a slow one, but I am taking pictures and keeping track of what mods I am doing.
I will post things in our Haoye build thread. I am using this thread for specific, generic questions such as motors, lipos, etc.
I hope you can post your mods, pictures , etc. I am disappointed I didn't get the FlyFly version, but think I can make something of this Haoye version.

5 cells sounds good. That means I need to invest in some more 3s and 2s lipos.
What mAh size of lipos seems good for this bird that can give enough power AND DURATION. I am so tired of launching my F-16 and Lynx and by the time I get in a groove, it's time to land. Yeah, they are speed demons and fly great, but I would like some longer duration with the Hawk.
Thanks again,
Ken
CSI is offline Find More Posts by CSI
RCG Plus Member
Reply With Quote
Old Aug 16, 2008, 05:29 PM
Si Vis Pacem Para Bellum!
Doubletap's Avatar
PRC (People's Republic of Commiefornia)
Joined Jul 2005
9,602 Posts
I think gunracer is right. 76mm (3") is plenty good for your Hawk. In fact, if you already have 4S 2200 packs, you can just run 4S but parallel two of them for more capacity and current handling. I know CarreraGTSCS used the 76mm Haoye with 28mm inrunner (2500kv I believe) and 4S in his GWS J10. He was pulling 600+ watts and 41A:

http://www.hobbycity.com/hobbycity/s..._7_Blade_3inch
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=874735

And yes, your Haoye Hawk is considerably smaller than the FlyFly. Here are the specs:

Fly Fly BAE Hawk:
Wing Span: 1365mm
Length: 1465mm

Haoye BAE Hawk (per Hobby City):
WingSpan: 960mm
Length: 1030mm

Doubletap
Doubletap is offline Find More Posts by Doubletap
Reply With Quote
Old Aug 17, 2008, 02:30 AM
CSI
I promise, just ONE more order
CSI's Avatar
Del Rio Intl, Texas, United States
Joined Feb 2004
3,983 Posts
Thanks Doubletap. I only have 2 2500 4s packs, the rest are 3s. I have 9 3s 2200 packs and go down in size from there.

I think you guys have me convinced to go with the 5s 75mm size fan. I didn't realize the FlyFly version was that much larger.
I find it funny how Haoye included their 90mm 4 bladed fan and motor, along with an non-named 75amp esc. I don't plan on using either, don't worry!

This is a fun project, but taking my time. I am slowly fitting all the radio gear items, retracts, etc...which is taking a lot of time to figure out where to locate them. There isn't any real..."that's where it fits" locations on this plane like on others. The locations are all left up to the builder.

The item I am hung up on right now is figuring out where to locate the RX and ESC. I am thinking the RX will mount up on the inside top of the fuselage...above and just aft of the intakes. I would make a small shelf to fit it in, well above the air path from the intakes. Still playing with that one......

I guess I am now on the hunt for the best fan and motor combo to use. So many choices out there..........
Thanks again guys, your info is much helpful.
Ken
CSI is offline Find More Posts by CSI
RCG Plus Member
Reply With Quote
Old Aug 17, 2008, 10:58 AM
Si Vis Pacem Para Bellum!
Doubletap's Avatar
PRC (People's Republic of Commiefornia)
Joined Jul 2005
9,602 Posts
Ken, the stock 90mm fan/motor/ESC may work just fine provided you use the right battery. If it was me, I would run some static tests on this powerset with different battery combos and see what kind of numbers you get with your wattmeter plus how hot the motor gets.

Doubletap
Doubletap is offline Find More Posts by Doubletap
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Category Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Discussion Astro flight 40 motor w/midi fan a65l Electric Ducted Fan Jet Talk 1 Aug 21, 2007 03:35 PM
What to do w/MIDI Fan? Shawn Palmer Electric Ducted Fan Jet Talk 34 Apr 24, 2005 10:03 PM
Help - Will a Maxcim Motor Work for Midi Fan? DavidMC Electric Ducted Fan Jet Talk 22 Oct 27, 2003 03:39 AM
Question on midi fan 30 cell pack dimensions Hopperfly22 Electric Ducted Fan Jet Talk 1 Aug 08, 2003 12:56 PM
FS: Airworld Cougar /w Midi Fan Arbo Aircraft - Electric - Airplanes (FS/W) 2 Dec 13, 2002 11:01 AM