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Old Aug 19, 2008, 10:03 PM
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USA, MA, Longmeadow
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Thanks for the compliment, Joe. You will have no trouble building an ACE in your sleep, overnight, with one hand tied behind your back.

Mark
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Old Aug 19, 2008, 10:37 PM
M0unt@in M0del$ minion
turbojoe's Avatar
United States, AZ, Mesa
Joined Jul 2002
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buzzltyr
Thanks for the compliment, Joe. You will have no trouble building an ACE in your sleep, overnight, with one hand tied behind your back.

Mark
Mark,

No worries about the build. Remember, it's a Mountain Models kit. Open the bag, squirt in some CA, shake it for 30 seconds and pour out a completed kit! Seriously though, it looks to incorporate a lot of SwitchBack Sr. and Tyro 150 in the design. That's a good thing as I love both of those planes.

This looks like it's going to be one of those kits that we are gonna overpower in a BIG way! I've got lots of big Scorpion motors and I'm experimenting with A123 1100mah and 2300mah cells right now. Gotta see if I can rip the wings off on the maiden!


Joe
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Old Aug 19, 2008, 10:46 PM
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Mountain Models's Avatar
United States, WI, Appleton
Joined Mar 2001
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Joe,

Trust me on this one... the Scorpion 2215-18 is seriously overpowered! Take a look at the numbers and the AUW of the ACE, that's already 200 watts/pound and 2:1 Thrust/Weight. How much more could you want?

UGH... OK, you do have a good supply of carbon fiber for reinforcements, right?
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Old Aug 19, 2008, 11:05 PM
M0unt@in M0del$ minion
turbojoe's Avatar
United States, AZ, Mesa
Joined Jul 2002
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eberwein
Joe,

Trust me on this one... the Scorpion 2215-18 is seriously overpowered! Take a look at the numbers and the AUW of the ACE, that's already 200 watts/pound and 2:1 Thrust/Weight. How much more could you want?

UGH... OK, you do have a good supply of carbon fiber for reinforcements, right?
Brian,

I've got CF o'plenty as well as several Scorpion 3008-32's and a 3014-16 that should push the limits in a big way!

OK, I still have that 2215-18 N.I.B. that I got from you at AEF last year. I'll try to be a good boy and start off with that motor. (on 4S!)

Joe
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Old Aug 20, 2008, 06:40 AM
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Glenn, one error I made on the fuselage when I put it all together was to glue the very aft tail, where the two sides meet, together while I was glueing in the rear formers. You don't want to glue those. I had to cut mine apart. What I didn't realize is that the bottom piece (where the v.stab and h.stab slot into each other) seperates the fuselage sides at the back. The v.stab actually slots down in between the two fuselage sides when it is put in place. You can tape or clamp them together to hold the fuselage square, but from the last, rear-most former to the very tip of the tail, you don't want to glue the sides together until you do the bottom sheeting and that lower tail piece.

I forgot to mention that boo-boo in my posts on the fuselage construction. But confession is good for the soul....

Mark
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Old Aug 20, 2008, 08:32 AM
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USA, FL, Tampa
Joined Jul 2002
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I figured that out during trial assembly. I inserted the bottom piece (dry) to align the fuse when the formers were glued to the sides. All that's left to complete the fuse is install the pushrod tubes and glue the top on. It was easy to do even with the carpenters glue and went together quickly once I had an assembly plan. The fit of the parts is absolutely perfect, I didn't think that level of accuracy is possible with balsa! Very nice job Brian!
While we are confessing our mistakes, I glued the sides to the crutch/former assembly THEN remembered to install the wing mount plate. Lucky I could bend it just enough to get it in there.
Glenn
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Old Aug 20, 2008, 09:06 AM
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Flight Report!

I now have three flights on the ACE, actually. The first one was a short (3-4 minutes) flight, just to check CG, trim, slow flight, and stall characteristics. Basically it was just circuits. My ACE required some up trim, and a few clicks of right aileron trim (probably a very minor wing twist issue). The flight was made at about 15-20% throttle. At this power level, and pretty much slow flight, the ACE was very controllable and responsive. Having known that the ACE was designed as an aerobatic model, I had expected it to require a "hot" landing (or at least hotter than most of my parkflyers). It doesn't. It slows down incredibly well for landing. It really floats in, much to my surprise. Probably due to the wing loading. But even at slow speeds, it is responsive. The stall is actually pretty gentle, and I have a slight (and I mean very slight) fall off to the left at stall.

The second flight was at a higher power level. What can I say except it does pretty much everything I know how to do very well. Under power, it will almost loop in it's own length if you want it to. It also does nice, big loops. Rolls, even on low rates (45%) are pretty axial. Inverted required only a touch of elevator to maintain. It does Cuban 8's very, very well.
It is definitely a symmetrical wing, because it goes where you point it, and does what you tell it to do. At anything above 3/4 throttle, it goes straight up for as long as you want to keep it headed in that direction. Vertical spins are a thing of beauty. The second landing was just as slow and docile as the first.

The third flight was to test rudder authority, which I did not do on the first two flights. The ACE will turn under rudder alone, but not sharply. I tried a snap roll, but it ended up being kind of sloppy. My rudder is set at about 45% for the low rate, so I think I've got to increase that a bit. At full rates, the rudder hits the elevator, so I don't think I'll be increasing it to that level. I also did a spin, aileron inputs alone, and it was also a thing of beauty. I don't have the piloting skills to do a flat spin, but I hope that someone who does will give it a try with the ACE. I suspect it will do one very nicely. Landing was, again, a non-issue.

All in all it was a great first three flights. The ACE is still in one piece.
I am reasonably comfortable with it's flight characteristics. But I need some more flight time, and probably some adjustment of my low rates upwards, to get a bit more performance out of it. But I would say that Brian's description of the ACE's flight characteristics are very honest. My goal for the next flight will be to increase the rudder rates a bit, and give the snap roll another try. I've already increased my aileron rates to 55%, and might go a bit higher on those surfaces, as well.

The only concern I have, which I have already communicated to Brian, is that as a taildragger, ground clearance of the trailing edge of the elevator is kind of limited. I'm not sure that it is a huge issue. If most builders do the ACE as a trike, it is not going to be an issue at all. But I might add a wire piece to the skid to increase the height a little bit (maybe a 1/2" or less). And Brian is contemplating other options.

Glenn, I too forgot the wing mounting plate until after the sides were glued in place. I just sanded the tabs down a bit, gently spread the sides, and popped it into place. Definitely another "I should have figured that out before I glued everything up" moment. I'm glad you did figure out to not glue the tail up until the bottom piece was in place.

Mark
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Old Aug 20, 2008, 09:53 AM
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Congrats on the successful maiden! Sounds like a nice flyer with a wide peformance envelope. My E-dog flies a bit like you describe but with the flat bottomed wing it is limited. Sounds like the ACE will fit right in with the rest of my fleet. If anyone is interested I can describe the fuselage assembly plan I used with the carpenters glue.
Glenn
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Old Aug 20, 2008, 08:16 PM
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Ok, I assembled the hatch like the diagram and it won't fit . I sanded the sides a bit and can get it in there but it is a tight fit. The magnet mount appears to be 1/8" too low and if I try to press the hatch closed it bows down in the middle. The hatch is flat and the top of the fuse is curved Is the drawing wrong or did I miss something here? Looks like I'm going to have to trash it now cause it's glued together tight and there's no way to take it apart without ruining it .
I also rerouted the rudder pushrod by drilling a hole in the middle of F4 for the tube to pass through. I added a tube support to the back of F3 too. This will put the pushrod opposite the nose wheel rod on the servo horn and will correct the travel directions. Pics later
Glenn
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Old Aug 20, 2008, 08:24 PM
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Glenn, I had to sand the hatch a bit as well. It is a very tight fit. I can't explain the magnet mount, however. Did Brian send you the two magnet setup? I will say that with the two magnets, the hatch is very securely mounted. Brian thought he might change it to a magnet and a washer, instead of the two magnets. My magnets meet perfectly.

Mark
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Old Aug 20, 2008, 09:05 PM
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Ok, but the hatch is flat and the fuse is curved. No amount of sanding will fix that. Did you assemble it as shown in the drawing?
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Old Aug 20, 2008, 09:15 PM
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Glenn, yes, I assembled it per the "exploded" diagram Brian provided me. I just went and looked at the hatch. Mine follows the forward slope of the fuselage very well. I am thinking that is the curve you referred to. The top of the hatch itself is flat. I will take a couple of pictures of my hatch, both sides, and of the nose, and post them up tomorrow morning. I don't know if that will help you or not....

Mark
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Old Aug 20, 2008, 09:48 PM
Don't watch this...
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Northern IL
Joined Oct 2003
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buzzltyr
... I don't have the piloting skills to do a flat spin, but I hope that someone who does will give it a try with the ACE. I suspect it will do one very nicely. ...

Do one Buzzy.
way up hi.
slow forward flight.
full left rudder and it'll start to drop and spin.
realativly quickly, increase to full up and full throttle (while still holding full left rudder).
hold it there and watch it flat spin down.

Gotta be left rudder for upright flat spin (right for inverted).

Once you do a couple of those, you will feel to feed in a bit opposite ailron.
Can also pulse the throttle once per revalution instead of WOT to keep it flatter and faster.

NP.

Go do it. If the plane can, it (and you) will.

I gotta get one of these. My DSGT is so tired.
How does it compare to the fully sysmetrical and non-dihedral DS?

CooHead
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Old Aug 21, 2008, 04:45 AM
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Glenn, here are two pics. The first is a side view of the nose (and Ric, my lack of perfect check cutting and placing is revealed to the world ), the second is of the bottom of the hatch. I didn't see a point in taking a pic of the top of the hatch, as all you are going to see is the covering. I don't know if they will help you solve your issues with the hatch, but I hope they'll help.

Coo, thanks for the instructions. I will have to give it a try. I never had a DandyGT, although I did have a GT wing for my Switchback. So I can't really give you a comparison of the Dandy vs. the ACE. If you build an ACE, you could better make the comparison than I.

Mark
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Old Aug 21, 2008, 05:53 AM
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That's exactly how I assembled it, with the finger notch opposite of the drawing (oops). I thought maybe that was the problem but that wouldn't account for the lack of curvature. Curious how the bottom curve of the strips matches the fuse profile perfectly, it's like they are upside down. I think maybe the strips have the pins on the wrong side? I 'll try to shave them off and turn them over to get the proper curve. I was mad at myself last night for not studying the assembly before glueing it. I just glued it up and set it aside. That's why there is no way to take it apart, the glue had dried hard. About the gap between the hatch and magnet mount, the thickness of the magnets makes up the gap so there is no issue there.
Glenn
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