Dec 15, 2009, 12:46 PM
Registered User
Rockwall, TX
Joined Dec 2004
643 Posts
Quote:
 Originally Posted by theKM I think of all rolling maneuvers as the effort of the input having an intended direction, and the trick is to time the inputs relative to the roll to get that direction. So for straight roller the direction is up to fight gravity, for a left circle it's diagonally up and to the left to fight gravity and turn, etc. If you can re-time that effort relative to the roll for a given direction, you can do whatever you want. A loop is the same as a straight roller, just with more throttle and larger control input. And for a more extreme example, a vertical rolling figure 8, you start with the direction pointing up and begin the loop, when you're at the top of the loop the direction of effort flips 180 degrees. After you fly the top loop it flips again in the middle to come through the bottom. The change in direction requires re-timing to the roll (the 180 degree change in effort direction for 8's, requires holding off input for half a roll before continuing). Not suggesting trying 8's before loops at all, it's just an example to illustrate the change in direction. If you can get your head to think of rolling maneuvers as simply being focused direction of effort during the roll, all that's left is hours upon hours of thumb-bleeding practice Note: this doesn't make the maneuvers easier to fly, but it helps with understanding of required inputs... all the rest is the size of the inputs how much throttle you're carrying, and practicing.
Yep...good explanation.
 Dec 15, 2009, 03:44 PM R/C Airplane Executioner Melbourne, Australia Joined May 2006 1,965 Posts I think when you learn to time the rolling harrier instinctively, rolling loops can also be a bit difficult to grasp because once you reach the top, you can subconsciously mis-time to maintain a level roll again (rather than going through with the second part of the loop.) You have to break instinct and force a continued consistent timing. I agree with KM... Hardest part is maintaining direction.
Dec 15, 2009, 05:04 PM
Team CAPACITY
United States, IN, Osceola
Joined Feb 2008
1,361 Posts
Quote:
 Originally Posted by theKM I think of all rolling maneuvers as the effort of the input having an intended direction, and the trick is to time the inputs relative to the roll to get that direction. So for straight roller the direction is up to fight gravity, for a left circle it's diagonally up and to the left to fight gravity and turn, etc. If you can re-time that effort relative to the roll for a given direction, you can do whatever you want. A loop is the same as a straight roller, just with more throttle and larger control input. And for a more extreme example, a vertical rolling figure 8, you start with the direction pointing up and begin the loop, when you're at the top of the loop the direction of effort flips 180 degrees. After you fly the top loop it flips again in the middle to come through the bottom. The change in direction requires re-timing to the roll (the 180 degree change in effort direction for 8's, requires holding off input for half a roll before continuing). Not suggesting trying 8's before loops at all, it's just an example to illustrate the change in direction. If you can get your head to think of rolling maneuvers as simply being focused direction of effort during the roll, all that's left is hours upon hours of thumb-bleeding practice Note: this doesn't make the maneuvers easier to fly, but it helps with understanding of required inputs... all the rest is the size of the inputs how much throttle you're carrying, and practicing.
These words are all GREEK to me. I need pictures, video, and someone who talks slow enough that I can understand. I learned rolling circles by mistake and that is probably how I will learn rolling loops. (unless BoneDoc posts a clinic soon)
Dec 15, 2009, 05:11 PM
↓↘→ + (punch)
central PA.
Joined Sep 2004
21,752 Posts
Quote:
 Originally Posted by pstrdenver These words are all GREEK to me. I need pictures, video, and someone who talks slow enough that I can understand. I learned rolling circles by mistake and that is probably how I will learn rolling loops. (unless BoneDoc posts a clinic soon)
then get out there and learn it by mistakes!

'cause, fact of the matter is, talking about it isn't anywhere near as useful as simply getting out there and flying until your thumbs hurt (or loading the sim and flying until your thumbs hurt).

...push the left stick forward like you mean it, pull in some up and start rolling. Bring on your rudder as it comes around to KE, then down elevator as the belly comes through. Repeat the pattern exactly like a rolling circle. If accidents are your thing, just keep going until you can loop it.

If you can rolling circle, you already know the inputs for a rolling loop... so get out there and get your mistakes happening!
Latest blog entry: Updated Hatcam - Apr2016
 Dec 15, 2009, 06:19 PM KING of PING! United States, PA, Lancaster Joined Nov 2008 1,074 Posts KM,that`s the deal,thanks and B-DOCand FAMILY.a real big thanks to you,too.
 Dec 15, 2009, 06:28 PM ↓↘→ + (punch) central PA. Joined Sep 2004 21,752 Posts here's another tip for realFlight users (though other sims may have a similar feature)... ...when learning something I mash the reload button like a metronome, but it puts you back on the strip and you have to take off, get height, etc. An easy way to get through massive practice is to take off, get to the ideal approach just before where you want to start the maneuver and hit "p". This sets your reset starting point... so when you fall off course in the maneuver, hit the reset button and you're already in place to go again right where you need to be. Can really crank through the practice of particular maneuvers like this. Latest blog entry: Updated Hatcam - Apr2016
 Dec 15, 2009, 07:35 PM Team 3DHS San Antonio, TX Joined Sep 2004 15,632 Posts That's a pretty good idea KM. Never bothered to look at the RF manual myself .
 Dec 15, 2009, 08:48 PM Pants on the ground exit 26 Jersey Joined Jul 2007 6,221 Posts Guys thanks for all the discussion in the past couple of days I'm starting to make progress on my rolling harrier more so than all of last year combined and I attribute it to reading everybodies posts and watching the videos. Mine you I still have a lot of practice to do but I can atleast do it for more than a couple revolutions thanks Glenn
 Dec 16, 2009, 08:16 AM Don't watch this... Northern IL Joined Oct 2003 5,583 Posts ....man....maybe I should get one of these simulator softwares? I "play" them a bit when I stop by the local hobby shop (often enough). But I can see where repeatedly flying on the computer would be good to program my fingers (warmer in the house too ). I've taught myself everything, by myself, via flying a plane at the local factory parking lot. Have been to a couple AMA flight sites, posted vids here, and some have commented that I'm pretty good at flying these R/C planes. But the more intesive training of rolling harriers has been a slow learning process. Maybe a sim would help speed that up. But man....\$200+ for one?! I could buy a new plane for that CooHead
 Dec 16, 2009, 08:34 AM OOPS USA, GA, Cochran Joined Jun 2008 20,240 Posts coohead ive seen your videos.you definatley have skills!The rollers are hard for me as well.I can get a couple in,then lose timing and head my plane for the dirt or get it going and chicken out lolol
Dec 16, 2009, 12:34 PM
Team CAPACITY
United States, IN, Osceola
Joined Feb 2008
1,361 Posts
Quote:
 Originally Posted by CooHead ....man....maybe I should get one of these simulator softwares? I "play" them a bit when I stop by the local hobby shop (often enough). But I can see where repeatedly flying on the computer would be good to program my fingers (warmer in the house too ). I've taught myself everything, by myself, via flying a plane at the local factory parking lot. Have been to a couple AMA flight sites, posted vids here, and some have commented that I'm pretty good at flying these R/C planes. But the more intesive training of rolling harriers has been a slow learning process. Maybe a sim would help speed that up. But man....\$200+ for one?! I could buy a new plane for that CooHead
I got a sim in October of this year and it has DRASTICALLY changed how I fly. I learned things in amatter of hours as opposed to years. Best money ever spent hands down.
 Dec 16, 2009, 01:22 PM Registered User Grass Valley California Joined Jun 2004 2,694 Posts [QUOTE=3D-Dabbler;13826788]as long as you are taking requests on new 3D clinics, I look forward to the rolling loop as well as a snap to hover NOt Bone Doc but the snap to hover requires a very deep stall, like a wall, in the snap. It is also very dependant on the power setting. Try starting from high alpha flight at about hover power, full up followed by rudder and aileron. to much power and you will over rotate or end up climbeing to fast, to little power and it will fall out. As you start to get the feal you can try from closer to level flight. Just like a hover or Wall manage the power so that you end up verticle and no speed left. rolling loops just give me a real pucker, especially on the last 1/4 of the loop, My timeing is 1 roll in each quarter and comming down and doing the inverted part of the roll heading straight down gets my attention.!! It helped me to just try the first half and bail at the top, that way I got a feel for the verticle inputs needed Dennis
Dec 19, 2009, 01:52 AM
ProBro 3dRookie ;)
Thornton, CO
Joined Sep 2008
1,466 Posts
Quote:
 Originally Posted by CooHead ....man....maybe I should get one of these simulator softwares? I "play" them a bit when I stop by the local hobby shop (often enough). But I can see where repeatedly flying on the computer would be good to program my fingers (warmer in the house too ). I've taught myself everything, by myself, via flying a plane at the local factory parking lot. Have been to a couple AMA flight sites, posted vids here, and some have commented that I'm pretty good at flying these R/C planes. But the more intesive training of rolling harriers has been a slow learning process. Maybe a sim would help speed that up. But man....\$200+ for one?! I could buy a new plane for that CooHead

Get the F'n Sim!!!!!!!!!!

Ok the sim is gonna cost you as much as a new plane,... all of the gear included! ...... but of course,... training IRL, (In Real Life) will cost you a \$100 airframe prettymuch everytime you crash!?

So what? the Sim costs,... well pressing the "ReSet" button for a new airplane.......
Dec 19, 2009, 07:32 AM
Sippin the Koolaid!
United States, NC, Hertford
Joined Oct 2007
16,522 Posts
Quote:
 Originally Posted by pstrdenver I got a sim in October of this year and it has DRASTICALLY changed how I fly. I learned things in amatter of hours as opposed to years. Best money ever spent hands down.
I have realfight G4 and I stink at flying on it. I am much better going out my my planes in the front yard. I get very little use out of my sim. To me the planes dont act right among other issues that dont make it seem" real"
 Dec 19, 2009, 07:36 AM Suspended Account Joined Dec 2008 4,097 Posts My sim is my yedge foamy. I get on the sim at the LHS and I look like a pro. Its not realistic at all.