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Old Dec 07, 2009, 08:34 AM
Some.. call him Tim...
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United States, TX, Austin
Joined Oct 2008
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Originally Posted by theKM View Post
This Patty Wagstaff Extra is pretty spiffy, current favorite... http://knifeedge.com/forums/download...do=file&id=633

...there's another 330, and a RedBull deal, but the URL's are hard to find again and this PW Extra is solid.



The Edge gets my roller vote from those listed, though I haven't flown a Velox or done rollers with the little slick. The Edge's 3D is pwnage, and its ability to bite air after a whoops is quite handy for learning...
Thanks! Thats the first time I downloaded a plane, and its great!

Do you have any outher, "Must have" 3D plane downloads? That will help me get to the next level?

Im Having a couple of screw putt in my Knee on Friday, so Ill be flying all G4.5 for the next month or so..
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Old Dec 13, 2009, 04:43 PM
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Joined Apr 2009
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Originally Posted by Tim Semeraro View Post
Aaron & Doc, what plane do you use in RF for rolling harrier practic?
I'm not Aaron or Doc, but Give YAK-53 3D a try. It's doesn't look like Slick, but in my opionion behaves more similar to it as Extra 330.
And increase travels of elevator and rudder.
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Old Dec 14, 2009, 10:27 PM
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USA, FL, Lutz
Joined Nov 2008
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BoneDoc: I have been watching your videos and have learned so much. I have some questions. I am interested in how you have the switches on your Tx set up. I think that you have a switch for Hi/Low rates on all 3 flight control surfaces, but normaly fly with rudder and alerons on high and flip elevator with your far right switch. Do you leave the KE mix on all the time or only when flying KE? What other mixes do you have? I fly nitro and gas planes and have a switch for hi and low idle. I would like to fly an electric plane but need to learn more about that later. Thanks Mark
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Old Dec 14, 2009, 10:37 PM
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San Antonio, TX
Joined Sep 2004
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Thanks for the kind words.

As for KE mix, if I do have it, I just leave it on all the time. Being able to isolate each axis (roll, pitch, yaw) to just one stick position with the mixes only help. In general I don't have other mixes as they are usually not necessary for 3D flying.

Some would suggest setting up an "idle", meaning that you keep the prop spinning, on electric setup as well. That will keep you from cutting off the motor, which some esc that has a "soft start" will take a couple of seconds before it fully powers up the motor. Otherwise, the only thing you really need is a throttle cut, or if the throttle doesn't feel right to you, you can add a throttle curve (assuming that your radio supports it.)
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Old Dec 14, 2009, 10:46 PM
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United States, IN, Osceola
Joined Feb 2008
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Bonedoc,

Is a clinic on Rolling loops in the future? I really appreciate all the time and effort you have put into these clinics. It has been a real help in moving me from a casual flyer to a 3D student.
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Old Dec 14, 2009, 11:27 PM
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A pre-requisite for doing this clinic is the ability to actually pull off the maneuver . At some point, when I feel that I have enough proficiency at it, I'd love to do one .
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Old Dec 15, 2009, 06:41 AM
Sippin the Koolaid!
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United States, NC, Hertford
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Originally Posted by BoneDoc View Post
A pre-requisite for doing this clinic is the ability to actually pull off the maneuver . At some point, when I feel that I have enough proficiency at it, I'd love to do one .
and thats called modesty . Just wanted to say thank you again. I am finally getting the hang of the rolling harriers.
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Old Dec 15, 2009, 08:11 AM
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A pre-requisite for doing this clinic is the ability to actually pull off the maneuver . At some point, when I feel that I have enough proficiency at it, I'd love to do one .
I'm sorry It never occured to me that you may not be profecient at it yet. Youre BoneDoc, I believe you can do anything with a RC airplane. You're the Michael Jordan of RC Flight.

All kidding aside...I'll look forward to it. You're teaching on these manuevers has been wonderful.

Denver
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Old Dec 15, 2009, 09:36 AM
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as long as you are taking requests on new 3D clinics, I look forward to the rolling loop as well as a snap to hover or anything else along the lines of combining multiple 3D moves into a sequence that is attractive to watch. aka helps people figure out how to plan and put on shows for yourself and / or bystanders.
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Old Dec 15, 2009, 09:49 AM
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Rockwall, TX
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Thought I might chime in on the rolling loops as this is one I have been working on myself lately. If you can fly a level rolling circle then you can probably also fly the rolling loop. The stick movements are very similiar you just have to change the starting point so you are going vertical rather than horizontal. The one thing that is a little different is you have to speed up the stick movements in the last quarter of the loop as the plane is coming down. This is similiar to the way you have to change the stick movements for rolling harrier to fly straight or to catch up when you get a little behind on the stir.

Practice it on the sim first and I bet you catch on pretty quickly if you know rolling harriers and rolling circles. Oh yeah..one more tip...do these flying upwind when learning.

I am by no means an expert but thought I would share what I have learned thus far.

David
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Old Dec 15, 2009, 09:57 AM
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I cant get my snaps to a hover to work worth darn
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Old Dec 15, 2009, 10:38 AM
Team CAPACITY
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Originally Posted by DPHOYE View Post
The stick movements are very similiar you just have to change the starting point so you are going vertical rather than horizontal. ...This is similiar to the way you have to change the stick movements for rolling harrier to fly straight or to catch up when you get a little behind on the stir.David
I understand the starting point for the rolling circle. Add elevator early. For the rolling loop am I adding rudder early?
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Old Dec 15, 2009, 10:49 AM
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Originally Posted by pstrdenver View Post
I understand the starting point for the rolling circle. Add elevator early. For the rolling loop am I adding rudder early?
Yes and as you roll inverted push down elevator harder to get the vertical component. From then on its pretty much the same stick movements you are just doing the cirle in the vertical plane. The downline is the hardest part.
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Old Dec 15, 2009, 11:27 AM
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I think of all rolling maneuvers as the effort of the input having an intended direction, and the trick is to time the inputs relative to the roll to get that direction. So for straight roller the direction is up to fight gravity, for a left circle it's diagonally up and to the left to fight gravity and turn, etc. If you can re-time that effort relative to the roll for a given direction, you can do whatever you want.

A loop is the same as a straight roller, just with more throttle and larger control input. And for a more extreme example, a vertical rolling figure 8, you start with the direction pointing up and begin the loop, when you're at the top of the loop the direction of effort flips 180 degrees. After you fly the top loop it flips again in the middle to come through the bottom. The change in direction requires re-timing to the roll (the 180 degree change in effort direction for 8's, requires holding off input for half a roll before continuing).

Not suggesting trying 8's before loops at all, it's just an example to illustrate the change in direction. If you can get your head to think of rolling maneuvers as simply being focused direction of effort during the roll, all that's left is hours upon hours of thumb-bleeding practice


Note: this doesn't make the maneuvers easier to fly, but it helps with understanding of required inputs... all the rest is the size of the inputs how much throttle you're carrying, and practicing.
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Old Dec 15, 2009, 12:19 PM
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Originally Posted by theKM View Post
I think of all rolling maneuvers as the effort of the input having an intended direction, and the trick is to time the inputs relative to the roll to get that direction. So for straight roller the direction is up to fight gravity, for a left circle it's diagonally up and to the left to fight gravity and turn, etc. If you can re-time that effort relative to the roll for a given direction, you can do whatever you want.

A loop is the same as a straight roller, just with more throttle and larger control input. And for a more extreme example, a vertical rolling figure 8, you start with the direction pointing up and begin the loop, when you're at the top of the loop the direction of effort flips 180 degrees. After you fly the top loop it flips again in the middle to come through the bottom. The change in direction requires re-timing to the roll (the 180 degree change in effort direction for 8's, requires holding off input for half a roll before continuing).

Not suggesting trying 8's before loops at all, it's just an example to illustrate the change in direction. If you can get your head to think of rolling maneuvers as simply being focused direction of effort during the roll, all that's left is hours upon hours of thumb-bleeding practice


Note: this doesn't make the maneuvers easier to fly, but it helps with understanding of required inputs... all the rest is the size of the inputs how much throttle you're carrying, and practicing.
Thanks! That was a very helpful explanation. I am going to try thinking about it in those terms tonight and try it on RF. It sounds like you need a "shoulder cam" to match your "hat cam" so you can show your hands and the plane simultaneously for the next installment theKM's rolling loops & figure 8's 3D Clinic video
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