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Old Apr 07, 2009, 12:54 PM
Planes are cool ;)
Hughbert's Avatar
Bath, UK
Joined Dec 2006
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I see what you mean; in that pic it doesn't look like there's much incidence at all. I did my own bit of artwork with the plane in a normal 'flight attitude' as I would call it. You can see that there still seems to be a very slight negative incidence when 'flying' but not as much as it seemed before.

I then tilted the plane so there was a slight positive incidence in the diagram, i.e. where I think it would be lifting - and it doesn't look too bad to me.

I hope the pics make sense, and I may have got them wrong, but that's what I've been seeing in my head anyway!

You could always mount the motor and balance it correctly without changing the wings, then do some ground runs and see if it will lift off or not; I think that's the only real way of testing whether there's a problem with the wing incidence.
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Old Apr 07, 2009, 01:44 PM
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United States, PA, Bellefonte
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Hey SW, don't go digging it out on my account, I was just curious if you had any pics. You said "You know you could ck the wing chord C/L ref to the fuse surface ref I mentioned by where the TE C/L & LE C/L sets in the saddle . That should tell you where you are to the thrust line."

I got my thrust lines marked on the fuse while the wing was mounted. I think I am on track with what you are saying.


Hugh, remember we are drawing straight lines on a rounded surface so it is not real accurate. I do know from working with the plane, the Horizontal Stab and the Wing share the same exact incidence perfectly, one line is 3/4 higher them the other. I can only assume you are being mislead by the photo that the lines cross since in the picture the H Stab looks tilted, I assure you it is not. The masking tape <Tan> follows allong the top of the H Stab perfectly and was the guide for making a correct tape line. The Blue vinyl tape 3/4 inch up is the direct line of the wing.

As bad as this thing looks as far as having negative incidence visually, I can't make the math prove it. This is one thing I hate about ARF's, you get no plans with them to reference.

I also noticed what could be causing an optical allusion sort of covered with the first pics, the canopy is shaped different between the old and new.
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Old Apr 07, 2009, 01:45 PM
In NY's beautifull hills
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Binghamton Broome Cty, New York, United States
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You know, I'm a bit cornfused w/ the fuse you are showing ??
It doesn't look much like the plane I think we're talking about--if a single pc wing--how does it go/secure into the fuse ?
I looked at my fuse --the forward & aft wing mtg holes relative to the canopy/foredeck surface (lets call it X) I mentioned are equidistant--1 15/16 to X. I can see your wing chord C/L is as mentioned--neg inicidence--LE is down.

My apologies on the fuse confusion --I guess I was looking at Hughberts fuse
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Old Apr 08, 2009, 02:19 AM
Planes are cool ;)
Hughbert's Avatar
Bath, UK
Joined Dec 2006
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Ron I'm not trying to say the wing/tail incidences are different; I assumed from your earlier pic they were the same.

What I'm trying to show with those pictures is the AoA of the wing for different fuselage incidences; i.e. how it would sit in the air. The first pic is how I think it should sit, and the wing/tail have slightly negative incidence (so no flight). The second pick is how I think it has to sit (for flight) and the fuse angle doesn't actually look too bad, in terms of 'tail-heaviness'.

However as you mentioned it's all pretty rough guesswork so I can't be sure.
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Old Apr 08, 2009, 11:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by staggerwing
My apologies on the fuse confusion --I guess I was looking at Hughberts fuse
No....We have been looking at one plane, we just colored it to removed the stripes.

Gen 1 of the Seagull 540 has a one piece wing, remove 4 screws from the canopy, lift off. Then there are 4 nylon wing bolt in the top of the wing under the canopy that takes the wing loose.

Ron
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Old Apr 08, 2009, 11:58 AM
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Keep me focused Hugh

I missed your thoughts completely, I see what you mean now. Maybe I need a SIM that would allow me to tweak the Wing incidence and do some testing. I guy can dream right.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Hughbert
Ron I'm not trying to say the wing/tail incidences are different; I assumed from your earlier pic they were the same.

What I'm trying to show with those pictures is the AoA of the wing for different fuselage incidences; i.e. how it would sit in the air. The first pic is how I think it should sit, and the wing/tail have slightly negative incidence (so no flight). The second pick is how I think it has to sit (for flight) and the fuse angle doesn't actually look too bad, in terms of 'tail-heaviness'.

However as you mentioned it's all pretty rough guesswork so I can't be sure.
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Old Apr 08, 2009, 01:07 PM
Planes are cool ;)
Hughbert's Avatar
Bath, UK
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Quote:
Originally Posted by daoldguy
Maybe I need a SIM that would allow me to tweak the Wing incidence and do some testing. I guy can dream right.
Mate if I had one of those I'd be so happy! What a dream we could ask boeing or airbus but I don't think they're giving away their secrets

Glad you got my meaning; anyway, that's why I say do the motor and cowl first and then do some ground runs
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Old Apr 08, 2009, 07:08 PM
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Pictures

Just some picks of the wing and wing saddle
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Old Apr 09, 2009, 05:08 AM
In NY's beautifull hills
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Binghamton Broome Cty, New York, United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by daoldguy
No....We have been looking at one plane, we just colored it to removed the stripes.

Gen 1 of the Seagull 540 has a one piece wing, remove 4 screws from the canopy, lift off. Then there are 4 nylon wing bolt in the top of the wing under the canopy that takes the wing loose.

Ron
Wow, didn't know there was such a version ! Will try to get a pic showing stab incidence relative to wing bolt holes on mine--busy time now w/ kids & 5 young grandkids coming home for a stay--as one of my granddaughters remarked--papa's house will be crazy !
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Old Apr 12, 2009, 10:56 AM
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Different view

I know all Ede 540's are not the same, but from this veiw there is a LOT of difference in the way the airplane is "Cut". From this view I think incidence is a major problem and the reason the plane wont take off <adding to the problem> is the tail does not slope to give the plane a more nose up stance.

Also refer to the Zivko 540 and 540T which are also more shaped like the Airworks 540

I see the need to trim some balsa
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Old Apr 13, 2009, 03:42 PM
Planes are cool ;)
Hughbert's Avatar
Bath, UK
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Ron, if you've gotta trim, you've gotta trim Sounds like you've got a good plan what you're going to do though, which will make it easier
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Old Apr 13, 2009, 09:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hughbert
Ron, if you've gotta trim, you've gotta trim Sounds like you've got a good plan what you're going to do though, which will make it easier
A snip here, slice there, its all good. I just wish some other owners of the bird would speak up, it would be cool to here other stories.
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Old Aug 03, 2009, 10:52 AM
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Well I'm a new owner. Just finished the conversion to E power and looking for a good place to test fly! Didn't notice any problems like like yours old dude. Made a couple of simple changes. Used a 'Y' pushrod w/the elevator servo in the cabin. Balances easily w/lot of battery arrangements (to allow for multiple packs in parallel if req'd)
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Old Aug 03, 2009, 08:41 PM
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DaOldGuy's Avatar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stanordave
Well I'm a new owner. Just finished the conversion to E power and looking for a good place to test fly! Didn't notice any problems like like yours old dude. Made a couple of simple changes. Used a 'Y' pushrod w/the elevator servo in the cabin. Balances easily w/lot of battery arrangements (to allow for multiple packs in parallel if req'd)
You got one of these birds? It is going to be my winter conversion to Electric for next season. These parts are a bit more money then powering foamies.

If I can ask, what do you plan to power yours with?
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Old Aug 03, 2009, 10:43 PM
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Ron, gonna try a TGY AerodriveXp SK Series 50-65 380Kv / 1820w

w/a 6 cell A123 pack, I don't know if it'll have enough pull so ordered a 5000ma lipo and an assortment of props to get the most out of it. Use the same motor in a Cap and it is quiet, smooth, and pulls luverly.
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